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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #1
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FAA approved drug...Lithium?

Hello,
I'm only 44 in great shape been flying ELSA Rans S12, I've been taken Lithium for about a year now very low dose I want to get my Medical back. What say you guys do you think I can being on Lithium? I'll be on it for the rest of my life.

Thanks and Be safe!
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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Hello,
I'm only 44 in great shape been flying ELSA Rans S12, I've been taken Lithium for about a year now very low dose I want to get my Medical back. What say you guys do you think I can being on Lithium? I'll be on it for the rest of my life.

Thanks and Be safe!
I'm sure Bruce will be by with the definitive, but I'd suspect the short answer is, "no". It's not just the meds but the underlying condition that's an issue.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:38 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

By Odin I hope not. Forgive me, I know it's mean, and I don't like to be so. But those suffering the illnesses treated by lithium should not be flying aircraft. Even though the illness may be in remission now, it could return and affect your judgment.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #4
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

Should not be flying" Yeah right so what I have a little bi-polar. Lithium is all-so used to treat cluster head-aches.
So your BS comment about "Anybody on Lithium should not be flying" Is a bunch of bull...
Get you facts!

I suppose you are going to tell me I should not be scuba diving either? How about driving a car?? That's the most risk a person does everyday and driving and talking....wow!

How about serving in the Arm-forces protection your rights? If it was not for people like me you could not lay your head down at night and be save!!

What do you know about Lithium?? Come on tell me!
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:05 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Should not be flying" Yeah right so what I have a little bi-polar. Lithium is all-so used to treat cluster head-aches.
So your BS comment about "Anybody on Lithium should not be flying" Is a bunch of bull...
Get you facts!

I suppose you are going to tell me I should not be scuba diving either? How about driving a car?? That's the most risk a person does everyday and driving and talking....wow!

How about serving in the Arm-forces protection your rights? If it was not for people like me you could not lay your head down at night and be save!!

What do you know about Lithium?? Come on tell me!
Steingar is a biochemist and has probably forgotten more about this stuff than most people have learned.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:14 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

And "a little bi-polar" is probably a lot disqualifying. What I've learned from reading Bruce's comments is that the FAA is taking the same sort of baby steps regarding mental illnesses that they did with diabetes. And eventually diabetes went from being "hell no" to "special issuance for certain cases" to a well-defined process that gets most of the diabetics out there eligible for some sort of certificate.

My "guess" is that there will be a similar long, careful process for things like SSRIs and such.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #7
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

Ok, here I'll settle down LI is a natural element, found in our water and food. LI is on the element chart just like 'K' or 'P' . You are consuming small amounts of it every day.
Do you know what Neurogenesis, LI will promote/increase gray matter in your brain.

So are you saying I should not be flying E-LSA either?
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:28 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Ok, here I'll settle down LI is a natural element, found in our water and food. LI is on the element chart just like 'K' or 'P' . You are consuming small amounts of it every day.
Do you know what Neurogenesis, LI will promote/increase gray matter in your brain.

So are you saying I should not be flying E-LSA either?
That's a question for you and your doctors. If they're not comfortable with you driving, then you shouldn't be flying. Or, if they tell you you shouldn't be flying, then you shouldn't be flying.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:57 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

To answer the original question, not a chance in h e double hocky sticks that you would get an FAA medical.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Ok, here I'll settle down LI is a natural element, found in our water and food. LI is on the element chart just like 'K' or 'P' . You are consuming small amounts of it every day.
Do you know what Neurogenesis, LI will promote/increase gray matter in your brain.

So are you saying I should not be flying E-LSA either?
Like I said, it's about the underlying condition. What is the result if you do not take it? Can an attack of cluster headache be debilitating? Can it effect your vision or ability to think reasonably? The issue is to further restrict the people you can kill the more likely you are to be debilitated by the affect. With a Class III you can take 12 or so pretty easily. You'll need to wait for someone like Bruce.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 10:35 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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So are you saying I should not be flying E-LSA either?
Based on your posts, probably not. But as stated by others, that's a matter for you to discuss with whoever's prescribing the lithium. If that medical practitioner agrees that you can safely perform as a Sport Pilot, then legally you can do so. Me? I'd need to fly with you some before I'd be able to say that, although to be honest, based on your posts, I'd be operating on a "guilty until proved innocent" basis.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #12
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by Ron Levy View Post
Based on your posts, probably not. But as stated by others, that's a matter for you to discuss with whoever's prescribing the lithium. If that medical practitioner agrees that you can safely perform as a Sport Pilot, then legally you can do so. Me? I'd need to fly with you some before I'd be able to say that, although to be honest, based on your posts, I'd be operating on a "guilty until proved innocent" basis.
It's so rare we agree....
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Old May 5th, 2012, 12:47 AM   #13
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

It is not on the acceptable list of medication for severe headache. 'Course you never told what subtype of headache you are thought to have....and many true bipolars present with headache.

Lithium has an extraordinarily terrible side effect profile for aviation. It also affects judgement and sleep cycles. It also rots your glomeruli.

You will also be fighting the presumtion of bipolar diesase right to the NTSB.

Have you got $300,000 for experts? If you do, have at. But the Federal Air Surgeon, Federal Psychiatrist, and the whole of AAM 200 will oppose you every step of the way. Actually, it'd be more like $500,000 in current dollars.

Most airmen, without psychiatric disease, would simply ask their docs to find something certifiable that works.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

" Guilty" of what? Not being able to control the aircraft in a safe manner? I'm a Commercial rated pilot with over 2000+ hours, I have my own airstrip (hay field or gravel road).
20 years ago I was a lot worst I just had enough when I got in my forties so I went in.
So what I fly my M5-210c without a medical, the Rans I can fly without a medical so no harm there. Oh yeah I have over 600 hours of T/W time!
So please I see you have a closed mind!
I'll bet if I went in to renew my medical and I was not true-full on the app no one would be the wiser.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
" Guilty" of what? Not being able to control the aircraft in a safe manner? I'm a Commercial rated pilot with over 2000+ hours, I have my own airstrip (hay field or gravel road).
20 years ago I was a lot worst I just had enough when I got in my forties so I went in.
So what I fly my M5-210c without a medical, the Rans I can fly without a medical so no harm there. Oh yeah I have over 600 hours of T/W time!
So please I see you have a closed mind!
I'll bet if I went in to renew my medical and I was not true-full on the app no one would be the wiser.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 01:51 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
" Guilty" of what? Not being able to control the aircraft in a safe manner? I'm a Commercial rated pilot with over 2000+ hours, I have my own airstrip (hay field or gravel road).
20 years ago I was a lot worst I just had enough when I got in my forties so I went in.
So what I fly my M5-210c without a medical, the Rans I can fly without a medical so no harm there. Oh yeah I have over 600 hours of T/W time!
So please I see you have a closed mind!
I'll bet if I went in to renew my medical and I was not true-full on the app no one would be the wiser.
No need to freak out, chill, take some Lithium... can you smoke it? You asked if you can get your medical back on that drug and the answer is no. Fly whatever you please with whomever in it. It will not be sanctioned or insured so the liability is all yours; that's pretty much the point that anybody quits caring. So long as you can't get a job flying, the FAA isn't that bloody oppressive in enforcement of medicals.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Should not be flying" Yeah right so what I have a little bi-polar. Lithium is all-so used to treat cluster head-aches.
So your BS comment about "Anybody on Lithium should not be flying" Is a bunch of bull...
Get you facts!!
I am sorry I offended you. I suspected I would. However, I have my facts. Lithium isn't prescribed for "a little bipolar" or pesky little headaches. The conditions permissive for it's use are potentially debilitating. In my opinion, anyone on this particular drug shouldn't be flying anything bigger than a kite.

Quote:
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I suppose you are going to tell me I should not be scuba diving either? How about driving a car?? That's the most risk a person does everyday and driving and talking....wow!
Scuba diving, for the most part you risk your self, and not the schoolyard full of children that might be the recipient of your flaming wreckage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How about serving in the Arm-forces protection your rights? If it was not for people like me you could not lay your head down at night and be save!!

What do you know about Lithium?? Come on tell me!
It is a potent antagonist of canonical wnt-signaling pathways, which have tremendously important roles in development and homeostasis. I suspect it affects far more than just nephronal glomerulae, though I certainly have no data to back up my suspicions, although the usual treatment dose and the toxic dose are not far apart. I genuinely don't know why it has effects on mania, and I'm not certain it's mechanism of action is known. Wasn't last time I looked. The MDs might have one on my there.

That the armed forces entrusts lethal ordinance to manics neither surprises nor boosts my confidence any. Lucky for you, the FAA doesn't listen to me or my pals. They've created a class of license called Sport Pilot, by which you and your pills can fly all day. If you want to be in the air, I would suggest taking that tack. Dr. Chien is a foremost expert of what the FAA will or won't allow, I'd be surprised if he didn't know more than anyone else alive. We are truly fortunate to have his wise counsel. You might try heeding it.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #18
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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I am sorry I offended you. I suspected I would. However, I have my facts. Lithium isn't prescribed for "a little bipolar" or pesky little headaches. The conditions permissive for it's use are potentially debilitating. In my opinion, anyone on this particular drug shouldn't be flying anything bigger than a kite.



Scuba diving, for the most part you risk your self, and not the schoolyard full of children that might be the recipient of your flaming wreckage.



It is a potent antagonist of canonical wnt-signaling pathways, which have tremendously important roles in development and homeostasis. I suspect it affects far more than just nephronal glomerulae, though I certainly have no data to back up my suspicions, although the usual treatment dose and the toxic dose are not far apart. I genuinely don't know why it has effects on mania, and I'm not certain it's mechanism of action is known. Wasn't last time I looked. The MDs might have one on my there.

That the armed forces entrusts lethal ordinance to manics neither surprises nor boosts my confidence any. Lucky for you, the FAA doesn't listen to me or my pals. They've created a class of license called Sport Pilot, by which you and your pills can fly all day. If you want to be in the air, I would suggest taking that tack. Dr. Chien is a foremost expert of what the FAA will or won't allow, I'd be surprised if he didn't know more than anyone else alive. We are truly fortunate to have his wise counsel. You might try heeding it.
No, the mechanisms of Lithium treatment really are still not known or even reasonably suspected at this point. Conductivity booster?

Military claims have been falsified here before, I don't take them immediately at face value.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #19
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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No, the mechanisms of Lithium treatment really are still not known or even reasonably suspected at this point. Conductivity booster?
Already mentioned by Steingar.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #20
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by Cap'n Jack View Post
Already mentioned by Steingar.
Yep, that's who I was responding to, I keep up on the a bit of the latest reading since most if the girls I know are nuts...
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Old May 5th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #21
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Yep, that's who I was responding to, I keep up on the a bit of the latest reading since most if the girls I know are nuts...
I'm pretty sure he knows his stuff and needs little help from the likes of us.

PS: You reading the National Inquirer isn't the "latest reading" to the real scientists here.

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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #22
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Originally Posted by steingar View Post
By Odin I hope not. Forgive me, I know it's mean, and I don't like to be so. But those suffering the illnesses treated by lithium should not be flying aircraft. Even though the illness may be in remission now, it could return and affect your judgment.
Michael, Lithium is often used to treat conditions other than BiPolar disorder. it can and is often used to enhance the effects of SSRIs. As we know some folks with depression are now permitted to get a medical. Not sure if the SSRI exception is blown by addition of Lithium.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

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Michael, Lithium is often used to treat conditions other than BiPolar disorder. it can and is often used to enhance the effects of SSRIs. As we know some folks with depression are now permitted to get a medical. Not sure if the SSRI exception is blown but addition of Lithium.
The SSRI protocol is for only one med at a time, and it must be one of the 4 named in the pathway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unreg
" Guilty" of what? Not being able to control the aircraft in a safe manner? I'm a Commercial rated pilot with over 2000+ hours, I have my own airstrip (hay field or gravel road).
20 years ago I was a lot worst I just had enough when I got in my forties so I went in.
So what I fly my M5-210c without a medical, the Rans I can fly without a medical so no harm there. Oh yeah I have over 600 hours of T/W time!
So please I see you have a closed mind!
I'll bet if I went in to renew my medical and I was not true-full on the app no one would be the wiser. Yesterday 10:47 PM
I keep waiting for somebody on lithium to be reasonable and to NOT shoot back that he'll just lie, because he's fine. I am disappointed once again....and I know not why I keep waiting for somebody reasonable who takes that med.

You're not here to inquire, and I answered your question, for which I see was a waste of breath.

You know, you don't have to have a medical or a rating at all to fly. You simply do, however if you want insurance that will pay off. Please note that the first time you bend metal or violate ATC, the LiCO3 codes will be all over your insurance file (which is not a part of the medical record) and the subpoenas will fly. If they want to, they can levey a pretty stiff Civil Monetary Penalty for each time you violate ($2,000 per occurance).

Lastly, I hope you stay out of my airspace.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #24
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

What makes you think people taking "Lithium" cannot operate as normal? What's normal anyway? I'm sure some of you drink way to much and are mean to your wifes or gay partners....
There's a huge difference from someone taking 1200mg to the 150mg I take. I did not lie nor distort the facts about my flying past. I'm willing to bet I get more flying time in per week then 90% of you clowns, so I know I'm current and safe.

I did my research before asking this board about 'LI' I have the link to the FAA drug database, I already knew it was not an approved drug. But I wanted to see your reaction, the clown pilot who said something about killing a yard full of school children, dude that's a huge leap don't you think? You want to imply I can not fully control the aircraft....WHAT?
If you were standing next to me you would not know the difference, and I'll bet you would fly with me no question ask! Yeah yeah you can come up with some bull about I don't fly with strangers...sure sure! Make it up as you go.

What I'm seeing here you people have an distorted view no facts not knowing jack about Lithium, I'll bet before me asking and you go Googling you had no ideal, other then the horror stories from the 50ies Zombie era.

I don;t need a piece of paper to tell me if I'm health enought to control the aircraft in a safe mannor.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 09:43 AM
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Re: FAA approved drug...Lithium?

I don't know, maybe switch to Thorazine?


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