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Old November 1st, 2008, 03:49 PM   #1
Taters taters is offline
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Smile Beechcraft Skipper

Just curious if anyone here has any experience with the BE-77, I dont. I am exploring a possible addition to the training aircraft fleet at my operation . I have a bunch of time in other Beech products and I find the quality un-parralled in comparision to every other make I have flown. I am mainly concerned with the maintainance side of things in terms of how they hold up in the training environment, also are they slightly better on usefull load than say a 152? Any info appreciated

Thanks

Here is an example in case some are unfamiliar with the plane

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Old November 1st, 2008, 05:49 PM
Posted in reply to taters's post "Beechcraft Skipper"
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Clay,

Dan posted a review earlier this year...you can find it here.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum...ad.php?t=21972

I have to admit that it would be nice to have a less expensive instrument platform. Plus it seems like a more comfortable ride than the 150 is for two people. The big question is how much rental would cost. It has to be attractive vs. the cherokee.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 06:02 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

I've never flown a Skipper--I flew a Beech Sierra which was decent but got nowhere near the POH advertised cruised and liked lots of runway. But that appears to have nothing in common with the Sierra.

It'd probably be an OK plane--personally I'm more interested in a retract but wouldn't want to pay a dollar more to fly it.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 06:26 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

We had two Skippers at the Flight School I ran. I thought they were great little airplanes. We rented them for the same price as a 152 and new students seemed to prefer the nice interior and look of quality.
Couple maintenance items, tail tie down hit the ground frequently requiring rear fuselage repairs. (very effective elevator) Lead problems with the 0-235-L2c. I've heard of a new AD requiring replacement of the switch/circuit breakers. (expensive)
Good trainers, not fast, (building hours, not miles) and use more runway than a 152.
To this day if I had a choice I would rent a Skipper over a 152.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 07:58 PM
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Wink Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.grimm View Post
We had two Skippers at the Flight School I ran. I thought they were great little airplanes. We rented them for the same price as a 152 and new students seemed to prefer the nice interior and look of quality.
Couple maintenance items, tail tie down hit the ground frequently requiring rear fuselage repairs. (very effective elevator) Lead problems with the 0-235-L2c. I've heard of a new AD requiring replacement of the switch/circuit breakers. (expensive)
Good trainers, not fast, (building hours, not miles) and use more runway than a 152.
To this day if I had a choice I would rent a Skipper over a 152.
Dave
Thats what I'm after..the quality..I love how you can see all of the "bonanza parts" in the panel. Thanks for the input to all...definately gonna try and take a look at one these sometime. They are a definately a "girl" airplane though in terms of looks
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 12:00 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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Originally Posted by d.grimm View Post
Lead problems with the 0-235-L2c.
Not if you lean it properly.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 01:18 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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Originally Posted by Ron Levy View Post
Not if you lean it properly.
And what new student EVER leaned properly?
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 01:31 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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And what new student EVER leaned properly?
Hopefully one who was taught properly and by the different means possible; mostly engine sound or EGT.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 01:56 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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Not if you lean it properly.

Even with the best practices it has a bad record. no matter what aircraft it is in.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 08:17 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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And what new student EVER leaned properly?
The ones I trained.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 08:51 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

The real downside to the Skipper is that it has the poorest performance of the "modern" 2 seat trainers.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 09:44 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Levy View Post
The ones I trained.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 11:16 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Another downside of the Skipper is the price of parts which is typical Beech. Very pricey to maintain.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 10:39 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

I enjoyed flying the Skipper. It was one of the club planes at Aurora about 6 years ago. If you are looking for one, the owner of the plane may have a line on one. PM me and I will give you his phone number.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 08:17 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

AdamB on this board flies a skipper in his club. There is a skipper for sale at my filed. The guy up graded to a Baron. ( Quite and upgrade). I think it is way over priced but it is a very clean and nice looking plane and IIRC its well equipped.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:16 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Yeah we have 2 in our club. http://www.newenglandflyingclub.com/aircraft.html
They are a decent trainer, very solid platform, and pretty spacious inside all things considered.
Finding parts and the cost of parts can sometimes be an issue as mentioned above but our maintenance guy does a great job. The guys at the Beech Aero Club have been very helpful in that regard.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:40 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
The real downside to the Skipper is that it has the poorest performance of the "modern" 2 seat trainers.
Yeah, but compared to Cessna 150/152 series, what difference is 4-5 knots?

Skipper benefits:
  1. Spacious interior
  2. Beech Build
  3. "Real Airplane" panel layout
  4. Good Control harmony
  5. Requires rudder
  6. Spinnable
  7. Predictable and benign slow flight and stall behavior
Skipper Disadvantages
  • Slow
  • Very Slow
  • Really, really slow
  • Anemic takeoff performance
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:57 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

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Originally Posted by vontresc View Post
Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.
That's good for a trainer, isn't it?
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 10:54 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by vontresc View Post
Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.
Pete: I was in the Sundowner the one night a couple months ago joking with the tower controller about how some call me a slowdowner. He got a kick out of it.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 11:14 AM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Clay,

I'm not the first to tell you this but I think you're missing a huge opportunity. Lincoln, as you know, has few training airplanes to begin with which is sad for the size of the city. The guys upstairs have little planned for anything past instrument. Although I know that you're only part of an operation, I strongly feel that you should look into a complex airplane. Yes, it's possible the maintenance is a little higher but think of the opportunities that you'll be able to give to both your clients, CFI's and company alike. It would be possible to teach all the way through ATP when, currently, Instrument is the furthest anyone can go. Not to mention, the aircraft are faster and more appealing.

The Skipper could be a great addition to the private fleet but I also know you strongly need something bigger than the 150 for special clients if you don't plan to use the Cherokee.

That is my observation and I've heard the same thoughts from some locals.


Is the Beech Skipper in any relation to the Tomahawk?
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 01:32 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccormack View Post
Yeah, but compared to Cessna 150/152 series, what difference is 4-5 knots?


Skipper benefits:
  1. Spacious interior
  2. Beech Build
  3. "Real Airplane" panel layout
  4. Good Control harmony
  5. Requires rudder
  6. Spinnable
  7. Predictable and benign slow flight and stall behavior
But that's not all! Act now and you'll receive...

Quote:
Skipper Disadvantages
  • Slow
  • Very Slow
  • Really, really slow
  • Anemic takeoff performance
I'd argue that for initial training, the first three disadvantages are non-issues. Learning how to handle a faster plane later is not a big deal, the whole point of primary training is to get the basics down. For that, speed is not really an issue. Anemic takeoff performance might teach students the importance of checking that POH for what the plane's takeoff performance is prior to takeoff. That's not a bad thing, either.

The advantages all make sense for a primary trainer. Again, the student can learn slow flight and stalls that are more difficult once they're ready to upgrade to a more difficult aircraft.

But, I have zero experience with a Beech anything, and tend to be partial to Pipers and Mooneys.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 01:38 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Seriously Ted--change your name--you're busting the site.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 01:39 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted DuPuis View Post
I'd argue that for initial training, the first three disadvantages are non-issues.
Oh absolutely! I remember the first time thinking -- "Holy cow there's plenty of time to arrange a landing in this thing!" It all happens so slowly it's as if each event is completely discrete.

But...

The climbout to safe altitude and place to practice took forever, eating into some of the lesson time. That's where a bit more power would come in handy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted DuPuis View Post
But, I have zero experience with a Beech anything, and tend to be partial to Pipers and Mooneys.
..And once you fly a Beech, you'll wonder why you wasted so much time in lesser airplanes....

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Old November 3rd, 2008, 02:13 PM
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Re: Beechcraft Skipper

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccormack View Post
..And once you fly a Beech, you'll wonder why you wasted so much time in lesser airplanes....

That remark is just Plane racist
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