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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #26
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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How do CFIIs feel about this?


He was an elderly guy who had a lot of experience instructing but I don't think he has been in the clouds in quite some time. He canceled on me one day with about 6 hrs to go until checkride on a 2000ft overcast day with light winds. I was really frustrated at that point - ready to switch instructors but I was so close to the checkride that I just stuck with it.

I think he is an excellent primary instructor and recommend him to anyone but I would not give my recommendation for instrument.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #27
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

I did a checkout flight in a new to me airframe and the CFI was burned out on primary instruction. Unfortunately, I had to insist on doing "boring airwork". about 9hrs and did something like 5 or 6 stalls and maybe 4 mins of slow flight. We did lots of high wind practice though and T/O and L's.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #28
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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How do CFIIs feel about this?
I've yet to meet a fellow II who refused to fly actual, but it seems they aren't that uncommon. It all depends on what stage of training the student is in. If it's your first time flying an arc or and ILS, then maybe you wait for a VFR day and practice in the sim, however, any CFII who is willing to sign off a student for an instrument ride should be willing to sit right seat with their arms folded while that student flies an instrument approach to minimums.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #29
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

There are other reasons besides fear that some instructors don't provide a lot of experience in actual. The lowest MDA at my home field is ~500 AGL, which means that most days with good IMC, there is a significant risk of having to divert to a "nearby" field with an ILS. Both PTK and DET are at least a half hour drive each way for whoever has to get us. My CFII isn't often willing to deal with the hassle of calling someone and waiting around to get picked up. I have a few tenths of an hour logged from the first few months of my training in the club 172, but that's it. Except for a bit of actual here and there in VMC instrument conditions, the rest is all hood time, and with summer coming, I doubt if I'll get another chance at actual before the checkride.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #30
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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There are other reasons besides fear that some instructors don't provide a lot of experience in actual. The lowest MDA at my home field is ~500 AGL, which means that most days with good IMC, there is a significant risk of having to divert to a "nearby" field with an ILS. Both PTK and DET are at least a half hour drive each way for whoever has to get us. My CFII isn't often willing to deal with the hassle of calling someone and waiting around to get picked up. I have a few tenths of an hour logged from the first few months of my training in the club 172, but that's it. Except for a bit of actual here and there in VMC instrument conditions, the rest is all hood time, and with summer coming, I doubt if I'll get another chance at actual before the checkride.
So if I as a student want to get actual, what the best time of year to train (my part of the country)?
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Old April 24th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #31
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

I would say don't be afraid to get the plane slowed down early so you can stay ahead of things. Get it stabilized and configured so you can concentrate on the approach.

I'm sure that flying in some actual is quite helpful and wouldn't dispute that. During my training that opportunity didn't present itself so I didn't get any actual until after. I think after spending all that time just looking at the panel with the foggles on it was not hard to do that when in actual rather than trying to look up, look down, rinse repeat.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #32
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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I would say don't be afraid to get the plane slowed down early so you can stay ahead of things. Get it stabilized and configured so you can concentrate on the approach.

I'm sure that flying in some actual is quite helpful and wouldn't dispute that. During my training that opportunity didn't present itself so I didn't get any actual until after. I think after spending all that time just looking at the panel with the foggles on it was not hard to do that when in actual rather than trying to look up, look down, rinse repeat.
I didn't have much trouble flying in actual, after a little getting used to, i've found it easier than flying with foggles on. I can fly 1.5hrs worth of approaches in actual and feel fresh after, with foggles on that same amount of time turns my brain to jelly.

The thing about it was, if I just had 2-3 hours with an instructor, it would have made life a little easier for me. Days after I got my rating, I took a long x/c trip and wound up with some surprise MVFR at my destination. It would have been a perfect opportunity to utilize my rating, but I decided to cancel and fly VFR under the stuff instead. It was not dangerously low weather, but I felt stupid for doing it. Not to mention, flying in weather gives a great chance for an instructor to impart extra knowledge.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #33
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

As someone who will hopefully be certified to send students chasing after clouds this Sunday I would say it depends. For me at least. I would take into consideration the student, our objective, my own personal minimums, and if the IMC conditions were related to any weather that would constitute a 'no go' decision.

Of course I'll be constantly striving to improve my own personal limits as I too agree the several hours of actual I got during instrument training was invaluable experience.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #34
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
How do CFIIs feel about this?
I don't think he/she should be a CFII, period.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #35
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

Seriously though, go ask around old guys who the local QB CFIIs are and choose the most sadistic bastard of them; do all 40hrs with them flying cross countries every day for a week regardless the weather and shoot approaches into everywhere along the way.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 01:54 AM   #36
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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So if I as a student want to get actual, what the best time of year to train (my part of the country)?
I've never flown in the DC area -- or anywhere east of the Appalachians for that matter. It was late fall when I got what little actual I did -- once during a warm spell when the freezing level was high enough, once actually in subfreezing temps in some dissipating clouds (but it was well above freezing below the clouds), and once in a heavy snow shower coming back from shooting approaches. I guess late spring might be a good time too.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 12:50 AM   #37
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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Fly in the worst weather possible, if your CFII is afraid to fly in the clouds, find another instructor.
What do you see as the best weather for IR training?

Our school has a 2000' and 3 mile vis limit for IR flights. Which is really hard to get around here. Its either 500' or 3000' with thunderstorms. So all my 5 hours of actual is basically all cruise. Also my CFI-I hated actual IFR flying. He wanted you to be perfect before he would take you into actual. My first CFI-I made our first true IR training flight, had done 5 hours of sim time earlier, into an actual night IFR x/c flight. I was nervous as hell and fixated on the gauges the whole time. But busting out over a city at night is very sweet!

My tips are:

DONT CHEAT while using foggles. As tempting as it maybe it hurts you in the long run!

DONT file direct to everything on your x/c. It may seem like a good idea at first but later you will see the benefit of using SID/STARS and V-Routes.

Make sure you watch out for altitudes with stars on NACO plates
EX: 2500* *Maintain 2600 or Above until established outbound for procedure turn.
It means there is an exception somewhere. Those got me all the time on my IR flights because its hard to notice the small *.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 11:36 AM   #38
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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What do you see as the best weather for IR training?

Our school has a 2000' and 3 mile vis limit for IR flights. Which is really hard to get around here. Its either 500' or 3000' with thunderstorms. So all my 5 hours of actual is basically all cruise. Also my CFI-I hated actual IFR flying. He wanted you to be perfect before he would take you into actual. My first CFI-I made our first true IR training flight, had done 5 hours of sim time earlier, into an actual night IFR x/c flight. I was nervous as hell and fixated on the gauges the whole time. But busting out over a city at night is very sweet!
Umm that's VFR...

That limit, on top of your CFII not wanting to fly actual would have been it for me.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 01:44 PM   #39
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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What do you see as the best weather for IR training?
As a newer instrument rated guy myself, coming out of the system with 0 actual and a piece of paper, the biggest moments for me were:

Flying into the clouds for the first time.

Flying in the clouds in turbulence

Flying a hold in the clouds, then a non precision approach

Intercepting the glide slope, and following the needles down until breaking out.

In the event the forecast changes, or you let yourself get backed into a corner otherwise while IFR, the ILS is more than likely going to be your savior. If you're out flying in any sort of low weather, you should know the alternates available with ILS, and of course have the fuel to utilize them. You need to be comfortable intercepting the localizer, glideslope and following the needles down until you break out - you should get a feeling of relief when you intercept, not anxiety! By limiting your flying to a celing of 2000 or better, you'll never get to experience this with your instructor.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #40
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

For me, by far the best part is flying through a cumulus field (at about 12,000 ft where the tops are a few thousand higher), asking for left-n-right deviations, and threading through the clouds. Kind of like mountain flying with the great sensation of speed except that if you "touch" these mountains from getting too close you survive .

Another tip that I really appreciated someone giving me when I first got my IR is to file your IFR plans on fltplan.com. The best part is you get your clearance before the flight, so you have it written down and ready to go before you get it read to you over the air. It can be sent via text message or email. As a new IR pilot trying to copy a clearance in an unknown area on a busy frequency where the clearance is complicated, it is SO incredibly useful to have "cheated" and have the clearance already written down. They can change it up a little but usually not much.

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Old May 2nd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #41
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

Get a pretty good computer set up with MS Flight simulator and a yoke. It will pay for itself in one or 2 flights.

I still use mine to review procedures between practice flights.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 09:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Another tip that I really appreciated someone giving me when I first got my IR is to file your IFR plans on fltplan.com. The best part is you get your clearance before the flight, so you have it written down and ready to go before you get it read to you over the air. It can be sent via text message or email. As a new IR pilot trying to copy a clearance in an unknown area on a busy frequency where the clearance is complicated, it is SO incredibly useful to have "cheated" and have the clearance already written down. They can change it up a little but usually not much.
Is THAT why everyone uses that god-awful website?! Now I finally know. 'Cause it's FUGLY.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:18 PM
Posted in reply to denverpilot's post starting "Is THAT why everyone uses that..."
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?



It IS fugly, but it works really well. I do agree they need to fix it up.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:52 PM   #44
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

train on a g1000. it' way easier.






let the discussion begin.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:52 PM   #45
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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train on a g1000. it' way easier.
Know a guy who just did that in an aircraft the owner wouldn't allow the AHRS or any other breakers to be pulled as "simulated failures"... he said all they could do was turn the dimmer down on the PFD on his check ride with the DPE.

(And he admitted he could still see everything on it while simulating flying in the mode where only the right side panel was operative.)

Talk about cheating. Yeah, I'd say from his descriptions his check ride was ridiculously easy. Did he learn to fly instruments? Only he knows...
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Old May 4th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #46
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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It IS fugly, but it works really well. I do agree they need to fix it up.
Agreed...the website does stink. The good news is that once you're set up thru Fltplan.com for email notifications to receive the probable IFR routing, when you file a flight plan using Foreflight, you will also get the same routing email notification (generated thru Fltplan.com).

Try it...you'll like it...

Tom
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Old May 4th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #47
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Well now, that's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing that.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #48
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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Agreed...the website does stink. The good news is that once you're set up thru Fltplan.com for email notifications to receive the probable IFR routing, when you file a flight plan using Foreflight, you will also get the same routing email notification (generated thru Fltplan.com).

Try it...you'll like it...

Tom
How does fltplan know that's your fltplan? Do you setup rules to look for tail number and email to you or does it spam you with anything it thinks you're interested in?
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Old May 5th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #49
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Re: New IR student- what's your best IR tip?

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How does fltplan know that's your fltplan? Do you setup rules to look for tail number and email to you or does it spam you with anything it thinks you're interested in?
A good question...and one I can't really answer for sure...

I Initially set up my profile in Fltplan.com (which indludes the tail numbers of the planes i fly). I subsequently filed several flight plans and got the really helpful email from "Info@FltPlan.com" with the routing spelled out.

A few weeks later, I filed a fight plan directly from my iPad ForeFlight app and was surprised to see an email 10 minutes later from the same Info@FltPlan.com with the expected routing.

Never any spam...

My assumption is that somehow FltPlan looks for tail numbers of flight plans filed/routings assigned with the FAA, and sends the info out to registered users of FltPlan.com. They can't tell if the flight plan was filed thru them or another on line source.

One thing I like about using ForeFlight is that when you file the flight plan it immediately sends you an email confirming the flight plan got filed, and also sends a separate email with the full standard weather briefing. This gives you an electronic copy of the briefing you can refer to in flight if you need to.

Tom
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Old May 5th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #50
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Yeah already knew about the briefing e-mail follow-up feature of Foreflight. Like that very much.

Didn't know fltplan scans for your tail number. That's nifty. Wonder if there's some poor soul getting spammed every time his favorite rental aircraft files? Ha. Maybe more info has to match?

Add Jesse's Weight and Balance App (which also can send a courtesy e-mail) and you have a nice record of all your pre-flight stuff.
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