Pilots of America Message Board

Home Live Chat
Go Back   Pilots of America Message Board > Controlled Airspace > Flight Following

Flight Following Got a general question to ask or aviation topic to discuss? Establish contact here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 28th, 2012, 02:48 PM
Posted in reply to wabower's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #26
Noah Werka Noah Werka is offline
(User ID: Noah Werka)
Pre-Flight
 
Noah Werka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hamptonville, NC
Posts: 76
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Many years ago flying a Baron over Long Island at 3000ft., I flew through a flock of geese. had no choice...it was about 10...PM. The door came open and the oil pressure on the right engine started dropping. Fortunately we were over Farmingdale Airport and on the ground in about 4 minutes.. Landed and taxied to what was then Beechcraft East. Shut down and just as we got out the prop was starting to go into feather. Walked around and counted evidence of eight strikes. Wing tip dented, wing root which was smashed flat cutting the oil pressure line to the gauge pumping out oil, side of fuselage had a dent that made the door come open, cracked step, propeller tip covered with blood and feathers, two distinct spots on the windshield(blood and feathers), and one on the spinner. Left the plane there and went back to Teterboro where the cars were parked. Went back the next day to survey in daylight the damage. Blood and feathers were allover the right side of the plane. Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.

Filed a complaint with the FGA(Federal Goose Administration) about a bunch of geese flying in formation at night without proper nav lights and to cover my ass. Never heard a word or anything back from them.

Noah W
Noah Werka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Posted in reply to Noah Werka's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #27
azure azure is offline
(User ID: azure)
En-Route
 
azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,889
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Werka View Post
Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.
That's quite a bill there... (no, not on the goose...)
Hopefully insurance paid for most (all?) of it?
__________________
PP-ASEL-IA
Complex & High Performance Endorsements

States I have flown to:
azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 03:46 PM
Posted in reply to Noah Werka's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #28
Wayne wabower is offline
(User ID: wabower)
Touchdown! Greaser!
 
wabower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,018
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

The B-200 r/h leading edge with an almost perfectly-centered goose-body-shaped indentation is available at reasonable cost if anybody is interested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Werka View Post
Many years ago flying a Baron over Long Island at 3000ft., I flew through a flock of geese. had no choice...it was about 10...PM. The door came open and the oil pressure on the right engine started dropping. Fortunately we were over Farmingdale Airport and on the ground in about 4 minutes.. Landed and taxied to what was then Beechcraft East. Shut down and just as we got out the prop was starting to go into feather. Walked around and counted evidence of eight strikes. Wing tip dented, wing root which was smashed flat cutting the oil pressure line to the gauge pumping out oil, side of fuselage had a dent that made the door come open, cracked step, propeller tip covered with blood and feathers, two distinct spots on the windshield(blood and feathers), and one on the spinner. Left the plane there and went back to Teterboro where the cars were parked. Went back the next day to survey in daylight the damage. Blood and feathers were allover the right side of the plane. Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.

Filed a complaint with the FGA(Federal Goose Administration) about a bunch of geese flying in formation at night without proper nav lights and to cover my ass. Never heard a word or anything back from them.

Noah W
wabower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Posted in reply to AuntPeggy's post "Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #29
arealrider arealrider is offline
(User ID: arealrider)
Pre-Flight
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: staten island n.y.
Posts: 33
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

wow some of those pixs look like a murder scene ! that would be a beeacth to clean up!
arealrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 04:04 PM
Posted in reply to DaleB's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #30
Rex Kramer Rex Kramer is offline
(User ID: Rex Kramer)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
Rex Kramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 356
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
Wow. I have wondered how high birds can/do fly. Had no idea they went that high AGL. I suppose it makes sense, though -- it's cooler and smoother up there.
Depending on the species, they can get up there and there is an actual case of an airplane hitting one of these at FL370, though fortunately not in this instance. The bird was eventually recovered safe and sound:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11011384

18 August 2010 Last updated at 06:55 ET

Missing vulture could pose threat in Scottish skies


Warnings have been issued to Scottish aircraft after a bird of prey, which can soar at up to 37,000 feet, went missing. The Rueppell's Griffon Vulture was flying in a display in Cumbernauld when it was caught in a gust of wind. Its handlers at the World of Wings centre could only watch as their star attraction soared high in to the sky.

It is feared the seven-year-old female, named Gandalf, could pose a threat to aircraft. David Ritchie, director of the centre, said: "These birds can soar higher than any other in the world, and have recorded heights of over 36,000 feet. "Gandalf is an absolute monster bird with a 10-and-a-half foot wingspan. She poses a genuine threat to airplanes."

The bird has been the star at the centre since 2006, when she was brought from Africa as part of a breeding programme. World of Wings specialises in promoting the plight of vultures, which are becoming increasingly endangered.
Rueppell's Griffon Vultures are native throughout the Sahel region of central Africa but the current population of 30,000 is in decline due to ongoing loss of habitat and other pressures.
Along with other birds, Gandalf is let loose to fly every day for members of the public, to show the birds "in their full glory". Airport alert Mr Ritchie also said: "She was taking part in her daily display and started to soar. She got caught in the wind and just went higher and higher until she disappeared. "We would warn people not to approach her but to call the police. She has no fear of humans and she could give someone a very severe bite. Her beak is designed to tear flesh apart."
Scottish airports, the police, the Scottish SPCA, Edinburgh Zoo and Blair Drummond safari park have all been informed. National Air Traffic Services confirmed that pilots taking off and landing at Scottish airports have been warned about the vulture. A spokeswoman for the Civil Aviation Authority said: "It can be quite serious. All the operators in the area have been notified." A spokesman at Cumbernauld Airport said: "With a wingspan of 10ft, it could do a lot of damage to a large aircraft. But it's also half the size of some of our small training aircraft and it could take one of them, or even a helicopter, right out."

Last edited by Rex Kramer; April 28th, 2012 at 04:10 PM.
Rex Kramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2012, 04:11 PM
Posted in reply to azure's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #31
Noah Werka Noah Werka is offline
(User ID: Noah Werka)
Pre-Flight
 
Noah Werka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hamptonville, NC
Posts: 76
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by azure View Post
That's quite a bill there... (no, not on the goose...)
Hopefully insurance paid for most (all?) of it?
It did(all). It was a Be58(1982 50th Anniversary model). I was working for Beech East TEB at the time and had a very good relationship with the people over there. I thought I knew quite a lot about the ins and outs of Barons and Bonanzas. A lot of 58 and 58P parts are not interchangable. An obscure fact arose during the repairs not even the FRG guys knew. Evidently, for some reason Beech used a mixture of regular Be58 and Be58P parts to build several 58s that year. Some of the parts damaged were 58P parts that could not be replaced with regular 58 parts. This was one of those Barons. That was quite a surprise for a lot of people at both TEB and FRG.

Noah W
Noah Werka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 09:11 PM
Posted in reply to Noah Werka's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #32
Kimberly kimberlyanne546 is offline
(User ID: kimberlyanne546)
Final Approach
 
kimberlyanne546's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California
Posts: 7,958
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

At the end of the AWOS recording at KDVO you can hear the "remarks" section asking all pilots to fill out a "wildlife form" if they see / encounter and wildlife in / around the airport. I asked another pilot if that was for the benefit of the pilots. I believe the answer was "no" and that, in fact, filling out the forms gave the public a reason to shut down the airport. Don't know if that was true - he said they would then claim we were disturbing the wildlife or something.
kimberlyanne546 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 09:23 PM
Posted in reply to kimberlyanne546's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #33
FBH N801BH is online now
(User ID: N801BH)
Final Approach
 
N801BH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 9,786
Send a message via Yahoo to N801BH
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberlyanne546 View Post
Don't know if that was true - he said they would then claim we were disturbing the wildlife or something.
That would not surprise me one bit at all..... Especially in California...
__________________
Ben
Jackson Hole Wy.
www.haaspowerair.com
N801BH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 09:26 PM
Posted in reply to N801BH's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #34
Kimberly kimberlyanne546 is offline
(User ID: kimberlyanne546)
Final Approach
 
kimberlyanne546's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California
Posts: 7,958
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by N801BH View Post
That would not surprise me one bit at all..... Especially in California...
I know. So, just in case he was right, I'm not fillin' out no stinkin' form. Besides, on EVERY untowered airport runway I've been to - at dusk or night time anyhow - there have been:

Jack rabbits
Mice / rats / rodents / voles
Birds of prey
Possums
Etc.
Often running across the runway.
kimberlyanne546 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2012, 09:37 PM
Posted in reply to skidoo's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #35
Tim TMetzinger is online now
(User ID: TMetzinger)
Final Approach
 
TMetzinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 9,717
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoo View Post
So, I am thinking it is more a risk with fast aircraft and less so with say GA single engine on final. There would be more time for the birds to divert. Anyone have any statistics related to speed?


Pilawt:
Do you know how fast the C182 was going at the time of strike?

I also wonder about the risk trade-off thinking of those who fly low in bird country. Its one reason I tend to fly higher AGL. Less birds and bugs...
Kinetic energy varies as the square of the speed, so the faster you hit that goose, the more energy (in an exponetial fashion) your airplane has got to absorb.

An HH-65 I was flying in took a goose through the windshield shortly after takeoff from KWWD one day. We were at less than 80 knots I'd guess and the bird still ended up in the back with me. I'm not sure which was messier, the helo or our flightsuits.
__________________
Timothy Metzinger
Metzinger Air Services, LLC
http://www.metzair.com


The first myth of management is that it exists.
The first myth of communication is that it's occurred.
TMetzinger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Posted in reply to TMetzinger's post "Re: Birds vs. Airplanes"
  #36
Doug DouglasBader is offline
(User ID: DouglasBader)
Line Up and Wait
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 896
Re: Birds vs. Airplanes

I took a peregrine falcon in the leading edge of a 210 one afternoon over the grand canyon; the it crushed the wing and peeled it back to the spar. When doing ag work, we got hit a lot; we worked low and the birds down in the crop didn't appear to figure out we were coming until we were nearly on top of them. It wasn't uncommon to have a flock of birds rise out of the crop in front of us, and the sound of them hitting the fuselage sounded like popcorn. We called them "popcorn birds."

The birds would end up jammed in the automatic flagman, and some times wound up in the cockpit. They would pass over or once in a while through the prop arc, hit the blade cutter on the front of the wind screen, and either get cut in half, or ride the blade up to the airscoop on top of the cockpit. There, they'd explode and enter the cockpit through the ramp air vent, and usually get blown down the back of my shirt, or all over the inside of the cockpit.

I've had two solid bird strikes at night, both about 10,000' in the mountains, or mountainous terrain. One was in a 182 around one in the morning on a halloween, and it left the windscreen covered in blood with dings and dents in the airplane. I have no idea what it was I hit, but guessed it was probably an owl of some kind.

The other was in a Lear 35, also about one in the morning just outside Las Vegas, approach Red Rocks, and whatever it was got the windscreen and crushed the radome.
DouglasBader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Home Register New Posts Today's Posts
Go Back   Pilots of America Message Board > Controlled Airspace > Flight Following

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Exploding Birds? Geico266 Hangar Talk 33 February 11th, 2010 09:43 AM
These Birds Are Small . . . . Lawreston Hangar Talk 0 May 30th, 2009 03:10 PM
BIRDS V BIRDS OtisAir The Sports Section 7 December 3rd, 2008 01:29 PM
The Birds! Don Jones Hangar Talk 6 December 3rd, 2007 12:20 AM
NA- #$%& Birds Cap'n Jack Hangar Talk 7 May 14th, 2007 03:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2005 - Pilots of America