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Old April 27th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #1
John John221us is offline
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OpenAirplane

Interesting. I think there was a thread not that long ago, wanting something like this:


http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._206599-1.html

A New Take On Renting Planes

By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor






Startup company OpenAirplane is hoping to launch later this year with a program that would allow participating pilots to rent aircraft from a network of widespread operators based on one annual checkout performed at one location. The company says it has partnered with the insurance company Starr Aviation to create a "standardization and evaluation program." In practice, that program would serve as a keystone for the business, eliminating the barriers of cost and time that "local checkouts" would otherwise impose on a traveling pilot. In theory, OpenAirplane co-founder Rod Rakic, expects that the system will also bring other benefits. "We know that pilots who participate in a checkout program like the one we have in mind fly more safely," says Rakic. He is betting that participating operators will also see gains.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 05:30 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane


I love the concept and am curious to see how this gets implemented.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane

Hertz tried it in the 1950s ... didn't last long. Seems to me there was another effort along these lines in the 1970s.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane

After Hertz, Lease-a-Plane tried it in the 70's. Short-lived. But I still wish OpenAirplane luck.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane

I thought it was an interesting idea. Its success is far from assured though.

Firstly, what's the business model, e.g. who's paying Rod salary? I suppose it could work better if renters paid a memebership fee. If he tries to ask FBOs to pay OpenAeroplane a referral fee, they're going to balk.

Even so, the incentive for FBOs to participate has to be significant. Most owners will need to negotiate with their insurance as well. That alone may be enough to put a kibosh on the whole thing.

Finally, there are small issues like policing the participating instructors, pilots, and businesses, or how to classify airplanes (are all 172s equivalent for the purposes of OpenAirplane checkouts, or not).

Personally, I signed up, but I am not sure I'd want to pay too much for this. I do not travel much. When I travel, I rent local airplanes mostly for a mock checkout in something unusual, like a Tecnam. And I often end in Hawaii, with ridiculously strict already, and growing, requirements for solo rentals. There's no chance those people would agree to honor OpenAirplane credentials. So, I may not be an ideal type, even though I rent a lot.

P.S. The worst may be to persuade fearful owners thogh. I am qualified in 172, it says so in my logbook. There's a CFI's name and number in there. How is that not enough for FBO owners to give me dispatch folder with keys, but OpenAirplane credentials would be?
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Last edited by zaitcev; April 27th, 2012 at 08:40 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:11 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane

Rod was recently on the In the Pattern Podcast, discussing this with some degree of depth. It sounds like he has really done his homework...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaitcev View Post
Firstly, what's the business model, e.g. who's paying Rod salary? I suppose it could work better if renters paid a memebership fee. If he tries to ask FBOs to pay OpenAeroplane a referral fee, they're going to balk.
I don't recall him saying how this would work.
Quote:
Even so, the incentive for FBOs to participate has to be significant. Most owners will need to negotiate with their insurance as well. That alone may be enough to put a kibosh on the whole thing.
Actually, here he has done some really good ground work. He has talked with VPs at all the insurance companies, and they generally like the idea, and the depth to which he has worked things out. He even has one of them partnered with him.
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Finally, there are small issues like policing the participating instructors, pilots, and businesses, or how to classify airplanes (are all 172s equivalent for the purposes of OpenAirplane checkouts, or not).
He is going to use the CAP Form 5 checkout procedure, so that everyone is uniform in their checkouts. CAP pilots will be "grandfathered" in, already checked out to fly the planes they are qualified to fly in CAP. Checkouts will be annual, and you have to be 90 day current to rent. As far as planes, he did address this, but I don't recall the details, so I won't try to replicate them all here, but if I recall correctly, it was that you would be allowed to fly similarly equipped planes to what you were checked out in. IOW, if you checked out on steam gages, you would not be able to rent a glass panel without a checkout. Also, once checked out, if you wanted to add other types to what you can rent, there would be an abbreviated check ride - no need to duplicate what you've already demonstrated.

Quote:
The worst may be to persuade fearful owners thogh. I am qualified in 172, it says so in my logbook. There's a CFI's name and number in there. How is that not enough for FBO owners to give me dispatch folder with keys, but OpenAirplane credentials would be?
This is what he is addressing. As an owner, you can't necessarily trust that a checkout was good, because there is so much disparity in check-out procedures. One flight school may do a 3 hour check ride, while the one down the road may give you the plane after three trips around the patch. Does the one who gives a longer check ride want to loan you his plane when you've only ever done three trips around the patch in a 172, say? The reason OpenAirplane creds will carry more weight is the standardization of the check ride - the CAP Form 5. The FBO in CA will be able to honor the checkout done in GA because it is the same checkout, and he knows it.

I'd suggest taking a listen to the latest (I think) In the Pattern Podcast. There is much more there than I've posted here.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 12:59 AM
Posted in reply to John221us's post "OpenAirplane"
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Equivalent types are listed on page 14:

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/...EEB0197465.pdf

Also should be noted that CAP requires annual checkrides, not biennial.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #8
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Re: OpenAirplane

Is this in addition to the FAA Flight Review or is it a substitution for it? And there in lies the problem. You may "think" it is standardized but what's to say they aren't rubberstamped also? Who does the checkouts and what kind of papertrail follows?
We pilots already do flight reviews. If that plus currency isn't good enough, I don't see how another layer is going to help. I'm not going to spend more time doing a checkout than I did on my FAA checkride.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Re: OpenAirplane

Any updates on this? I like the idea, but it won't be easy to get established. If it works it has the potential to be good for everyone.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 12:15 AM
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All the news outlets seem to have given it top billing this week.

What I can't figure out is how you get around all the "club dues" and whatnot. Seems like you can fly via a high speed aluminum tube somewhere and you qualify to fly something, but you're not a club member... Game over.

Same thing if there are two participating local FBOs. Yes, you qualify to fly the "other club's" Skyhawks. Welcome. Please deposit $500 new member fee.

Not the issue everywhere, but it's common enough, I don't see how you get around it.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 10:57 AM
Posted in reply to Pilawt's post "Re: OpenAirplane"
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Re: OpenAirplane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilawt View Post
Hertz tried it in the 1950s ... didn't last long. Seems to me there was another effort along these lines in the 1970s.
Thanks for posting that - very interesting. I see even back in 1958 they had adds for "Homebuilt Helicopters" ! Some things never change.

I believe the main proponent for this project is also the same guy that started the "IMC Club".
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Old October 28th, 2012, 11:17 AM
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Re: OpenAirplane

I could see something like this working quite well in a large metro area like LA or SF. Not so much for the "travelling pilot", but for the local pilot who wants to realize better aircraft availability of the regional rental fleet without having to endure multiple checkouts at each airport.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Re: OpenAirplane

This concept "open airplane" was a good success in the Navy's flying clubs.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art VanDelay View Post
I believe the main proponent for this project is also the same guy that started the "IMC Club".
I don't believe Rod was ever involved in that. Rod's other venture was/is MyTransponder.com.
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