Robin DR2160

[weilke]

Has anyone here flown a Robin DR2160 ?

160hp french 2-seat trainer approved for +6/-3. Not many of them in the US.

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

Has anyone here flown a Robin DR2160 ?

160hp french 2-seat trainer approved for +6/-3. Not many of them in the US.

You bet! There used to be 3 of them for rent at Long Beach, did my initial aerobatic training in N2160Z with a girl who died in the C-130 that folded the wings on a fire mission.

Great little plane though, I liked the yoke/stick deal, it was comfortable plane with great visibility and good flying manners combined with more than adequate control forces for learning aerobatics. Side by side is nice as well. They aren't powerful, but they are pretty clean so they teach energy management very well.

If you've got the opportunity to fly one, strap it on and have some fun. It's what Grumman should have built and what most of their owners imagine they have but are afraid to try because the plane isn't rated or strong enough for them to screw it up in.

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Henning

You bet! There used to be 3 of them for rent at Long Beach, did my initial aerobatic training in N2160Z with a girl who died in the C-130 that folded the wings on a fire mission.

N2160Z is for sale, I'll meet with the owner this weekend. I think I have to leave the check-book at home .

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

N2160Z is for sale, I'll meet with the owner this weekend. I think I have to leave the check-book at home .

Is Oscar Zulu still Black and Gold? I haven't flown her in 20 years, if she's still the girl she was, you might want to fold one check into your wallet just in case. Another nice thing about them is you have a left throttle and center throttle so you can use either hand for either from the left seat. I found practicing aerobatics ambidextrously was fun and was probably why I never had an issue switching to the right seat.

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Henning

Is Oscar Zulu still Black and Gold? I haven't flown her in 20 years, if she's still the girl she was, you might want to fold one check into your wallet just in case.

Black/gold with sort of a starburst pattern.

Another nice thing about them is you have a left throttle and center throttle so you can use either hand for either from the left seat. I found practicing aerobatics ambidextrously was fun and was probably why I never had an issue switching to the right seat.

Neat, didn't know that.

Now, given that you have flown the plane, not sure whether that augments or detracts from the value .

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

Black/gold with sort of a starburst pattern.



Neat, didn't know that.

Now, given that you have flown the plane, not sure whether that augments or detracts from the value .

That's the same scheme, I used to have a picture of her with my black and Gold Z-28. Where is she now?

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Henning

That's the same scheme, I used to have a picture of her with my black and Gold Z-28. Where is she now?

Stafford,VA KRMN.

I have no idea what these things are worth as there are so few transactions to look at. I guess I'll have to decide what it is worth to ME.

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

Stafford,VA KRMN.

I have no idea what these things are worth as there are so few transactions to look at. I guess I'll have to decide what it is worth to ME.

Pretty much, what's the asking? Engine time? (last I knew her it was a stock O-320 with no inverted systems and a 30 second inverted limitation) TT?

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Henning

Pretty much, what's the asking? Engine time? (last I knew her it was a stock O-320 with no inverted systems and a 30 second inverted limitation) TT?

Asking 75k. 64SMOH, 2477TT, 80s vintage Narco stack and a KXN 135 (VFR) GPS. Includes 2 Strong parachutes 2006 vintage included (I believe there is a lifetime limit on emergency chutes, 15 years or so).

The problem so far is that my wife overheard one end of the phone conversation with the owner. After I hung up, she asked me 'when did you tell him that you are not buying another plane ?'

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by weilke

Asking 75k. 64SMOH, 2477TT, 80s vintage Narco stack and a KXN 135 (VFR) GPS. Includes 2 Strong parachutes 2006 vintage included (I believe there is a lifetime limit on emergency chutes, 15 years or so).

The problem so far is that my wife overheard one end of the phone conversation with the owner. After I hung up, she asked me 'when did you tell him that you are not buying another plane ?'

In which case your answer must conclude with "and that's my story and I'm sticking to it."

And when she sees it in your hangar for the first time, the line is "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

[Dave]

Originally Posted by weilke

Asking 75k. 64SMOH, 2477TT, 80s vintage Narco stack and a KXN 135 (VFR) GPS. Includes 2 Strong parachutes 2006 vintage included (I believe there is a lifetime limit on emergency chutes, 15 years or so).

The problem so far is that my wife overheard one end of the phone conversation with the owner. After I hung up, she asked me 'when did you tell him that you are not buying another plane ?'

No limit on the Strong or National chutes as far as I know. The Softie brand has a 20 year limit.

Can you get parts for the Robin?

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by David

No limit on the Strong or National chutes as far as I know. The Softie brand has a 20 year limit.

Can you get parts for the Robin?

That's a good question and the answer is obviously yes. That's the thing, planes are engineered around common components, the actual airframe parts that get damaged are typically easy to reproduce from common stock. Stuff like canopies and windshields come from third parties.... A smart owner can easily and within the rules fabricate or direct to have fabricated any part required to return their plane to service.

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

Asking 75k. 64SMOH, 2477TT, 80s vintage Narco stack and a KXN 135 (VFR) GPS. Includes 2 Strong parachutes 2006 vintage included (I believe there is a lifetime limit on emergency chutes, 15 years or so).

The problem so far is that my wife overheard one end of the phone conversation with the owner. After I hung up, she asked me 'when did you tell him that you are not buying another plane ?'

$75k with a fresh overhaul huh? Hmmm... Who did the overhaul?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Henning

That's a good question and the answer is obviously yes. That's the thing, planes are engineered around common components, the actual airframe parts that get damaged are typically easy to reproduce from common stock. Stuff like canopies and windshields come from third parties.... A smart owner can easily and within the rules fabricate or direct to have fabricated any part required to return their plane to service.

How would you get a cracked cast part replaced if you couldn't buy a serviceable used part or factory part? How many foundries would be willing to make an airplane part? How many mechanics would sign off on it and install it? How much would it cost?

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by David

How would you get a cracked cast part replaced if you couldn't buy a serviceable used part or factory part? How many foundries would be willing to make an airplane part? How many mechanics would sign off on it and install it? How much would it cost?

Any foundry I know, although I would just have a billet part machined on a multi axis CNC machine and get it approved.

[weilke]

Originally Posted by David

Can you get parts for the Robin?

Good question.

The history of the type certificate is a bit complicated. At this point, the TC is owned by Alpha aviation in NZ. They started making new planes in 2006 but shut down new production in 2008. The company still exists and assures me that they can provide most parts. The woodwing Robins (DR400 series) are quite common in europe. Their TC is now owned by 'New Robin'. While the 2160 is a different (all metal) design, there is apparently a fair amount of parts commonality.

[iHenning]

They have been in continuous training service since they were made so obviously there is support. If they're Kiwis it might be ok, the are ver accustomed to small market and frugal production economics, plus they have the Oceana and PAC Rim markets if there is ever an economic recovery.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by weilke

Good question.

The history of the type certificate is a bit complicated. At this point, the TC is owned by Alpha aviation in NZ. They started making new planes in 2006 but shut down new production in 2008. The company still exists and assures me that they can provide most parts. The woodwing Robins (DR400 series) are quite common in europe. Their TC is now owned by 'New Robin'. While the 2160 is a different (all metal) design, there is apparently a fair amount of parts commonality.

That's encouraging but get a price quote on some typical parts and most important - check the shipping charges. I sent some brakes parts to Australia a couple of months ago. It was the first time I'd sent anything other than a letter overseas. The US postal service was by far the cheapest and it took the same amount of time as Fedx, DHL and UPS. The total weight was around 20 lbs and I paid $168.00. I recently sent some parts to be reworked to Canada and used Fedx ground because I was lazy. I paid about $200 each way with shipping, fees, etc. I think that box weighed about 40 lbs. So $400 in shipping for $1000.00 worth of work . I've been buying a fair amount of small stuff from the UK and the shipping charges, using Royal Mail, have been very reasonable.

[weilke]

Met with the owner today, went up for a couple of rolls around the pattern. I am doomed.

[iHenning]

Originally Posted by weilke

Met with the owner today, went up for a couple of rolls around the pattern. I am doomed.

Told you. I think it's a great aerobatic starter, Lisa and I were 275lbs between us with chutes on, so we got pretty decent performance. She'll do a nice round loop with only a 3G pull; you know you're doing it it right if she stutters just a bit as you push lightly out through the top. Does nice hammerheads as well... If you get an Oregon Aero seat pad she's not uncomfortable or inefficient for cross country and you saw the space back there, not bad IIRC, I did a couple trips to SF and Monterrey in OZ.

[Jeanie]

Congrats Weilke. Post pictures of her when you get her home!

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Congrats Weilke. Post pictures of her when you get her home!

While I know that I am doomed, I haven't quite jumped off the ledge yet. It is a real oddball plane and I dont have hangar space to put it into. Still have to do some due diligence regarding a couple of items. But I am clearly in love .

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by weilke

While I know that I am doomed, I haven't quite jumped off the ledge yet. It is a real oddball plane and I dont have hangar space to put it into. Still have to do some due diligence regarding a couple of items. But I am clearly in lust .

FTFY

[Chris Carlson]

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...bin-r2160.html


These blokes can answer your question (abeit with a funny accent...).



Chris

[weilke]

Originally Posted by Hiperbiper

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...bin-r2160.html


These blokes can answer your question (abeit with a funny accent...).



Chris

That's funny. The other plane I was looking for is a Scottisch Aviation Bulldog. But all of those in the US are all on exhibition experimental certificates which my life insurer doesn't like.