Radials on departure and GPS

[Ren]

Originally Posted by aterpster

Do you get a glideslope for ILS and LPV on the GPSMAP 696?

Dont have a 696 but i think the answer is yes if you switch to the screen with a 6pack

[Cap'n Ron]

Originally Posted by aterpster

I have no experience with VFR panel mounts. Will they do an LPV IAP?

That's like asking if a VFR airplane will cruise at 150 knots. Some will, some won't -- depends on which one it is and how it's installed. Also, LPV is simply a subset of an RNAV(GPS) approach, and you can find the basic approach in equipment that doesn't even have WAAS even if you aren't allowed to fly it to LPV mins or have it display the vertical guidance.

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by Ron Levy

That's like asking if a VFR airplane will cruise at 150 knots. Some will, some won't -- depends on which one it is and how it's installed. Also, LPV is simply a subset of an RNAV(GPS) approach, and you can find the basic approach in equipment that doesn't even have WAAS even if you aren't allowed to fly it to LPV mins or have it display the vertical guidance.

You shouldn't be allowed to fly it to any minimums. I trust that is what you are saying. LPV is a very unique "subset' of RNAV and functions quite differently than other aspects of RNAV.

[Cap'n Ron]

Originally Posted by aterpster

You shouldn't be allowed to fly it to any minimums. I trust that is what you are saying. LPV is a very unique "subset' of RNAV and functions quite differently than other aspects of RNAV.

I can't think of a reason in the world (legal or safety) why one should not be flying an RNAV(GPS) approach to the LNAV mins using nonprecision procedures with a non-WAAS IFR/approach GPS even if there are LPV mins on that chart. That would be like saying you shouldn't be allowed to fly an ILS approach to the LOC minimums on the chart if you don't have a GS.

Or is there another point you're trying to make that I'm missing completely?

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by Ron Levy

I can't think of a reason in the world (legal or safety) why one should not be flying an RNAV(GPS) approach to the LNAV mins using nonprecision procedures with a non-WAAS IFR/approach GPS even if there are LPV mins on that chart. That would be like saying you shouldn't be allowed to fly an ILS approach to the LOC minimums on the chart if you don't have a GS.

Or is there another point you're trying to make that I'm missing completely?

I agree with your statement made in this quote. But, previously I thought we were speaking of VFR panel mounts that supposedly can fly LPV.

[John]

Originally Posted by aterpster

I agree with your statement made in this quote. But, previously I thought we were speaking of VFR panel mounts that supposedly can fly LPV.

I may be wrong, but IIRC the 696 only depicts the lateral path for the approach from the FAF to the MAP. I think there is vertical guidance outside of the FAF, but that it goes away at the FAF so as to not tempt the pilot to use if for the final approach segment. The approach guidance is very limited and does not show waypoints outside of the FAF and is for situational awareness only and may not be used for any IFR navigation including enroute, terminal, or approach. There are no RAIM or WAAS integrity functions performed.

[Tom D]

My Radial, departs just fine with or with out a GPS.

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by John Collins

I may be wrong, but IIRC the 696 only depicts the lateral path for the approach from the FAF to the MAP. I think there is vertical guidance outside of the FAF, but that it goes away at the FAF so as to not tempt the pilot to use if for the final approach segment. The approach guidance is very limited and does not show waypoints outside of the FAF and is for situational awareness only and may not be used for any IFR navigation including enroute, terminal, or approach. There are no RAIM or WAAS integrity functions performed.

That has been the historical stance. One of my Garmin avionics friends stated to me a long time ago that the hand-helds were a consumer product, no different than one of their automotive GPS units.

I have never discussed with them the VFR panel mounts. That isn't in my area of work interest these days.

[Jaybird180]

Originally Posted by Ron Levy

I can't think of a reason in the world (legal or safety) why one should not be flying an RNAV(GPS) approach to the LNAV mins using nonprecision procedures with a non-WAAS IFR/approach GPS even if there are LPV mins on that chart. That would be like saying you shouldn't be allowed to fly an ILS approach to the LOC minimums on the chart if you don't have a GS.

Or is there another point you're trying to make that I'm missing completely?

Ok, this is throwing me. I thought you couldn't do either if you didn't have the proper (and approved) equipment.

[Cap'n Ron]

Originally Posted by Jaybird180

Ok, this is throwing me. I thought you couldn't do either if you didn't have the proper (and approved) equipment.

That's correct. But just because an approach has ILS mins for which a GS is required doesn't mean you can't legally fly it to the LOC mins on that chart if you have a LOC receiver but no GS. Likewise, just because an RNAV(GPS) approach has LPV mins for which you need a WAAS IFR/approach GPS doesn't mean you can't legally fly it IFR to the LNAV mins on that chart using a non-WAAS IFR/approach GPS.

Now, maybe there is an RNAV(GPS) approach out there which has LPV mins but no LNAV mins, in which case you couldn't fly it at all without a WAAS IFR/approach GPS, but I haven't seen one like that yet.

...and the sound you hear is fingers punching keys trying to find such an approach.

[John]

Originally Posted by Ron Levy

Now, maybe there is an RNAV(GPS) approach out there which has LPV mins but no LNAV mins, in which case you couldn't fly it at all without a WAAS IFR/approach GPS, but I haven't seen one like that yet.

Hunt and peck no longer.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1204/00680RZ26.PDF

[Cap'n Ron]

Originally Posted by John Collins

Hunt and peck no longer.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1204/00680RZ26.PDF

Well, there you go, Wally -- an RNAV(GPS) approach you can only fly with a WAAS IFR/approach GPS. It's interesting to compare it with the RNAV(GPS) Y Rwy 26 there, which is LNAV only. And I'm sure there are also ILS approaches with no LOC option, too. However, if the LNAV or LOC mins are there, you can fly it without the WAAS or GS, respectively -- just not so low. Now, can anyone find an airport with separate LOC and ILS approaches to the same runway using the same localizer (same direction, not BC vs FC)?

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by Ron Levy

Well, there you go, Wally -- an RNAV(GPS) approach you can only fly with a WAAS IFR/approach GPS. It's interesting to compare it with the RNAV(GPS) Y Rwy 26 there, which is LNAV only. And I'm sure there are also ILS approaches with no LOC option, too. However, if the LNAV or LOC mins are there, you can fly it without the WAAS or GS, respectively -- just not so low. Now, can anyone find an airport with separate LOC and ILS approaches to the same runway using the same localizer (same direction, not BC vs FC)?

Why are you telling me this? As if I didn't know aready.