Pilots of America Message Board

Home Live Chat
Go Back   Pilots of America Message Board > Controlled Airspace > Flight Following

Flight Following Got a general question to ask or aviation topic to discuss? Establish contact here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:07 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #151
Jim - In Texas! JimNtexas is offline
(User ID: JimNtexas)
Cleared for Takeoff
 
JimNtexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,238
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Known factual information here.
JimNtexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #152
Fearless Tower Fearless Tower is online now
(User ID: Fearless Tower)
Final Approach
 
Fearless Tower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 7,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
Question for you Navy vets or any vets:

Do they keep an AWACS airborne all the time when they are in proximity to foreign waters? What is AWACS role, and how far can they paint the arena?
No. AWACS are specifically tasked. Not always flying.

I don't know what the specific range is (pretty sure it is classified at any rate), but I'd guess it is around 150-200 nm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
Would it be improper to say that when one of those puppies is airborne, there is no such thing as an unidentified target?
Just because you have paint on a contact doesn't mean it is automatically identified. You still need other sensors (such as IFF interrogation or radar emission sensors) to identify tracks.
__________________
States whose airspace I have offended:

Fearless Tower is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:28 PM
Posted in reply to airguy's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #153
Ren dell30rb is online now
(User ID: dell30rb)
Final Approach
 
dell30rb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 5,338
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
Because it's big enough to carry a crude third world manufactured nuclear weapon.

Gut the interior, load it up, new paint job with fake numbers, originate out of somewhere as a private business jet
Snatching a 777 full of people for this purpose makes no sense. Why not grab an old cargo plane.
dell30rb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:37 PM   #154
airguy airguy is offline
(User ID: airguy)
Cleared for Takeoff
 
airguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: west Texas
Posts: 1,151
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dell30rb View Post
Snatching a 777 full of people for this purpose makes no sense. Why not grab an old cargo plane.
Two reasons.

First, they get the double-duty of a terror story about a whole plane disappearing.

Second, if they intend on using the aircraft to carry a mass-destruction weapon to a major city, they will only get one chance to get "into the system". They can take off from any of several thousand unmonitored locations and open an IFR plan into the US (or other country) calling themselves a G-IV and nobody will be the wiser until it arrives at it's destination - but the ruse will not work if they have to stop and refuel, which means they need enough un-refueled range to get from Point A to Point B in a single hop, and the 777 gives them a LOT of range for that. Point A where they originate from will have to be someplace they can hide the identity of the aircraft and depart without fear of triggering any sort of radiation detection. An old cargo aircraft would work fine for that part, but there is too much risk of setting off radiation detectors during a fuel stop with customs inspection. The attack would have to take place on descent enroute to the first intended port of entry.
__________________

Committing flagrant acts of aviation on a daily basis.

Last edited by airguy; March 10th, 2014 at 04:41 PM.
airguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #155
Dave Dav8or is offline
(User ID: Dav8or)
Pattern Altitude
 
Dav8or's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 2,045
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Why would anyone hijack an airliner with the purpose of turning it into a weapons delivery system, when you can just buy one on the used/salvage market and avoid drawing attention to your scheme? If you have the dough to build a nuclear bomb, or a dirty bomb, you can afford some raggedy ol' 747 out of Africa or somewhere.
__________________
1966 Mooney M20F
Dav8or is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:44 PM
Posted in reply to Dav8or's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #156
airguy airguy is offline
(User ID: airguy)
Cleared for Takeoff
 
airguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: west Texas
Posts: 1,151
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav8or View Post
Why would anyone hijack an airliner with the purpose of turning it into a weapons delivery system, when you can just buy one on the used/salvage market and avoid drawing attention to your scheme? If you have the dough to build a nuclear bomb, or a dirty bomb, you can afford some raggedy ol' 747 out of Africa or somewhere.
Too many tracks are left when buying one - there is always somebody to point back at the trail, and you could get caught/intercepted via that trail before you get to use it. If you steal it, it's yours without paper - you just have to hide it very well until you want to use it. The troubling part is that once you use it, you stand a very high chance of being discovered. What worries me is that being discovered is not something they are worried about since they don't intend on using the aircraft more than once.

My guess is that the group would make the assumption their moves are being watched and would be caught if they tried to buy an aircraft large enough to transport that kind of payload. The only way to get one that big would be to steal it - either sitting on the ground at an air terminal (exceedingly difficult) or to hijack it and get away with it (only slightly less difficult).
__________________

Committing flagrant acts of aviation on a daily basis.

Last edited by airguy; March 10th, 2014 at 04:54 PM.
airguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 04:53 PM
Posted in reply to Dav8or's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #157
Mike I Mike I is offline
(User ID: Mike I)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
Mike I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 472
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav8or View Post
Why would anyone hijack an airliner with the purpose of turning it into a weapons delivery system, when you can just buy one on the used/salvage market and avoid drawing attention to your scheme? If you have the dough to build a nuclear bomb, or a dirty bomb, you can afford some raggedy ol' 747 out of Africa or somewhere.
There's still the stolen 727 floating about (potentially). That's a bit scary as well. http://www.airspacemag.com/history-o...371187/?no-ist
Mike I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 06:31 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #158
Tmpendergrass Tmpendergrass is offline
(User ID: Tmpendergrass)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 157
I'm sure this conversation is being had very seriously at the FBI, CIA, etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tmpendergrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #159
Greg ClimbnSink is online now
(User ID: ClimbnSink)
Final Approach
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,075
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmpendergrass View Post
I'm sure this conversation is being had very seriously at the FBI, CIA, etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If it disappeared intact those guys are the culprits.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot_dude View Post
You're not a bright individual and your posts prove this out.
ClimbnSink is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 06:59 PM   #160
17 NoHeat is online now
(User ID: NoHeat)
Cleared for Takeoff
 
NoHeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 1,276
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

There's got to be a story behind the western search areas. They seem to be taking it so seriously that they sent the American Orion plane there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun260 View Post
NoHeat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:07 PM
Posted in reply to txflyer's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #161
Greg Kainz gkainz is offline
(User ID: gkainz)
Final Approach
 
gkainz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 6,072
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
Question for you Navy vets or any vets:

Do they keep an AWACS airborne all the time when they are in proximity to foreign waters? What is AWACS role, and how far can they paint the arena?

Would it be improper to say that when one of those puppies is airborne, there is no such thing as an unidentified target?
My time in the Hawkeye (E-2B and -C) was quite a few years ago, but we were airborne any time the carrier was doing flight ops. I don't recall ever launching just the E-2 ...

The radar coverage was advertised as around 300nm and we operated a couple hundred miles from the ship, so we extended the carrier's visibility by a good 500 nm or more.

Edit - just saw FearlessTower's post above ... I'm pretty sure the radar range was unclassified then ... if not, oh crap - here comes NSA, NCIS, and all the other goons ... my disclaimer - APS-128 radar is no longer current, and I have now idea about the E-2C Block 0 and -D models capabilities.
__________________
Greg
"Mastering the prohibited maneuvers in the NATOPS Manual is one of the best forms of aviation life insurance you can get."

Ten Hi Flyers - an Owners Flying Club at KBJC

Last edited by gkainz; March 10th, 2014 at 07:15 PM.
gkainz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:15 PM
Posted in reply to Ghery's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #162
taxvictim slinger is offline
(User ID: slinger)
Pre-Flight
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bundox
Posts: 45
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghery View Post
I'll reply once, and only once. Read the 1st Amendment. Congress shall make no law... POA is not a government operation and if the moderators decide to delete a post, they will do so. Crying about freedom of speech will get you nowhere.

Now back to the original purpose of this thread...
I give up easily. Tried to before. I don't come here often because of the Milquetoast mentality. PC enough, honey?
slinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:37 PM
Posted in reply to slinger's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #163
Tim Winters timwinters is online now
(User ID: timwinters)
Final Approach
 
timwinters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SEMO (H88 & 0T3 & CGI)
Posts: 6,091
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slinger View Post
I give up easily. Tried to before. I don't come here often because of the Milquetoast mentality. PC enough, honey?
timwinters is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:43 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #164
iHenning Henning is online now
(User ID: Henning)
Taxi to Parking
 
Henning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale FL
Posts: 39,264
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

The Iranian and passports are more likely to be in pursuit of the heroin trade than terrorism, but this one is certainly interesting to watch. My bet is still on a pressure failure of the fuselage.
__________________
Quote:
There is enough for everyone; there is never enough for the greedy.-Mahatma Gandhi

All life is precious, the problem is there is just too much of it.-Dali Lama
Henning is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:50 PM
Posted in reply to Henning's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #165
KPTK Norman is offline
(User ID: Norman)
Cleared for Takeoff
 
Norman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: cone of confusion
Posts: 1,128
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Well, my curiosity being piqued by the speculation, anyone else think it could be sitting on the ground in Iran? They would have had enough fuel to get there.

Just another wild thought.
__________________
Norm
Norman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:50 PM
Posted in reply to Henning's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #166
FBH N801BH is online now
(User ID: N801BH)
Final Approach
 
N801BH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 8,776
Send a message via Yahoo to N801BH
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henning View Post
The Iranian and passports are more likely to be in pursuit of the heroin trade than terrorism, but this one is certainly interesting to watch. My bet is still on a pressure failure of the fuselage.
I am in the opposite camp....

That plane is sitting on a long runway in North Korea with a giant tarp over it.........
__________________
Ben
Jackson Hole Wy.
www.haaspowerair.com
N801BH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:51 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #167
Tmpendergrass Tmpendergrass is offline
(User ID: Tmpendergrass)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henning View Post
The Iranian and passports are more likely to be in pursuit of the heroin trade than terrorism, but this one is certainly interesting to watch. My bet is still on a pressure failure of the fuselage.

Are you thinking heilous 522 type incident? This seems like the only plausible explanation outside of terrorism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tmpendergrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:51 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #168
CharlieTango CharlieTango is online now
(User ID: CharlieTango)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
CharlieTango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Posts: 343
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

A friend of the Iranians said they bought the passports to emigrate to Europe, they had tickets for connecting flights to Europe.
CharlieTango is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:57 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #169
Jeff Jf1450 is offline
(User ID: Jf1450)
Pre-Flight
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Smithfield VA and Kill Devil Hills NC
Posts: 42
Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slinger View Post
I give up easily. Tried to before. I don't come here often because of the Milquetoast mentality. PC enough, honey?
The deal is,most of the regulars here are very knowledgable, extremely intelligent and quite opinionated. (I'm not in the first two). You're out of your league sweetheart.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
PP ASEL, A&P, CW3 USA Retired (from the Army but not from working). 82nd, 101st, 160th SOAG, Vietnam, Grenada.

Last edited by Jf1450; March 10th, 2014 at 08:09 PM.
Jf1450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:58 PM
Posted in reply to Henning's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #170
Ren dell30rb is online now
(User ID: dell30rb)
Final Approach
 
dell30rb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 5,338
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henning View Post
The Iranian and passports are more likely to be in pursuit of the heroin trade than terrorism, but this one is certainly interesting to watch. My bet is still on a pressure failure of the fuselage.
This 777 had some wing damage from a taxi collision a few years ago.

Events like that have a nasty habit of popping up again years later in the form of a catastrophic failure. I can't remember the specifics but there was a 747 that had the ass end of the pressure vessel blow out as a result of a tail strike a few years prior (that had been repaired). Knocked off some important control surfaces and the plane crashed in a bad way.


Ouch

Quote:
The report indicated that on 7 February 1980, the aircraft used on the flight had a tailstrike accident while landing in Hong Kong.[21] Part of the plane's tail scraped along the runway for several hundred feet. The aircraft was de-pressurized, ferried back to Taiwan on the same day, and a temporary repair done the day after. A more permanent repair was conducted by a team from China Airlines from 23 May through 26 May 1980. However, the permanent repair of the tail strike was not carried out in accordance with the Boeing Structural Repair Manual (SRM). The area of damaged skin in Section 46 was not removed (trimmed) and the repair doubler plate that was supposed to cover in excess of 30% of the damaged area did not extend beyond the entire damaged area enough to restore the overall structural strength.
Consequently, after repeated cycles of depressurization and pressurization during flight, the weakened hull gradually started to crack and finally broke open in mid-flight on 25 May 2002, exactly 22 years to the day after the faulty repair was made upon the damaged tail. An explosive decompression of the aircraft occurred once the crack opened up, causing the complete disintegration of the aircraft in mid-air.[4]

This was not the first time that a plane had crashed because of a faulty repair following a tailstrike. On 12 August 1985, 17 years before the Flight 611 crash and five years after the accident aircraft's repair, Japan Airlines Flight 123 had crashed when the vertical stabilizer was torn off and the hydraulic systems severed by explosive decompression, killing 520 of the 524 people on board the aircraft. That crash had been attributed to a faulty repair to the rear pressure bulkhead, which had been damaged in 1978 in a tailstrike incident.[22] In both crashes, the faulty repair had been an incorrectly installed doubler plate that was not installed according to Boeing standards.

Last edited by dell30rb; March 10th, 2014 at 08:23 PM.
dell30rb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 07:58 PM
Posted in reply to N747JB's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #171
Tmpendergrass Tmpendergrass is offline
(User ID: Tmpendergrass)
Pre-takeoff checklist
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieTango View Post
A friend of the Iranians said they bought the passports to emigrate to Europe, they had tickets for connecting flights to Europe.

Criminal, yes, terrorism, not nessesaraly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tmpendergrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 08:04 PM
Posted in reply to Jf1450's post "Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #172
Jim cooper Jimmy cooper is offline
(User ID: Jimmy cooper)
Pattern Altitude
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore md.
Posts: 1,940
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Question......it's reported that radar showed the airplane doing a 180 just before it disappeared. Would it not have shown also an altitude change as it must have still stayed in radar range.
Jimmy cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #173
iHenning Henning is online now
(User ID: Henning)
Taxi to Parking
 
Henning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale FL
Posts: 39,264
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNtexas View Post
Interesting they supplied this link http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/2012...semaine.32.pdf
referring to the airframe here as damage at a terminal, but that's not what my limited French translation abilities read.

Edit, doh should have gone down further.
__________________
Quote:
There is enough for everyone; there is never enough for the greedy.-Mahatma Gandhi

All life is precious, the problem is there is just too much of it.-Dali Lama
Henning is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 08:12 PM
Posted in reply to N801BH's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #174
iHenning Henning is online now
(User ID: Henning)
Taxi to Parking
 
Henning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale FL
Posts: 39,264
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by N801BH View Post
I am in the opposite camp....

That plane is sitting on a long runway in North Korea with a giant tarp over it.........
It's a long assed way from where they went off radar to North Korea, they would have made primary radars of China to get there, in fact, they would have to pass their destination. I'd imagine they would have also been seen on US military radar in S. Korea.
__________________
Quote:
There is enough for everyone; there is never enough for the greedy.-Mahatma Gandhi

All life is precious, the problem is there is just too much of it.-Dali Lama
Henning is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2014, 08:15 PM
Posted in reply to Henning's post "Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?"
  #175
FBH N801BH is online now
(User ID: N801BH)
Final Approach
 
N801BH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 8,776
Send a message via Yahoo to N801BH
Re: Malaysian Airliner missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henning View Post
It's a long assed way from where they went off radar to North Korea, they would have made primary radars of China to get there, in fact, they would have to pass their destination. I'd imagine they would have also been seen on US military radar in S. Korea.
Huh.....

I better bring up world maps on my computer...:confused 2:
__________________
Ben
Jackson Hole Wy.
www.haaspowerair.com
N801BH is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Home Register New Posts Today's Posts
Go Back   Pilots of America Message Board > Controlled Airspace > Flight Following

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hijack an airliner? There's an app for that. CJones Hangar Talk 6 April 12th, 2013 05:27 PM
GA guys: Could you land an Airliner? Badger Hangar Talk 159 March 26th, 2013 09:13 PM
Personal Airliner spiderweb Flight Following 149 December 9th, 2012 02:12 AM
Let's get our own Airliner junk? mikea Hangar Talk 2 December 14th, 2011 11:41 PM
Airliner - real holding ejensen Hangar Talk 8 December 3rd, 2007 11:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2005 - Pilots of America