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Old April 7th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #1
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Angry Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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this week’s opinion by Judge Lynn N. Hughes of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas in the forfeiture case of The United States of America v. $35,131.00 in United States Currency. Mr Carty briefly summarizes the decision:

Judge Hughes spanked Homeland Security for tricking an American family into “evading” their duty to report how much cash they were taking out of the country. It contains some very choice words. My favorite quote: “In addition to overreaching the people whom they are to serve, three officers wasted one-half day watching four others embarrass themselves.”

Quote:
officer Agustin Hernandez from the Customs and Border Protection of the Department of Homeland Security asked Kyle how much currency and monetary instruments he had on him. Kyle responded that he did not know. Hernandez then asked how many dollars he was carrying; Kyle replied that he would guess around $20,200. Hernandez wrote $20,200 on the form. He told Kyle to sign it, and Kyle did.

Hernandez then took the family to another table where officer Charlesworth Clarke told them to put all of their currency on it. At that point, Kyle asked what counted as currency because he had traveler’s checks. From his six carry-on bags and jacket he retrieved everything – $20,000 in traveler’s checks and $11,131 in cash. Berekti, who had been tending to their daughter during the conversations, handed the officer her wallet. It had $9,000 in cash. The officers then frisked the Joneses and searched their bags, and found no additional money – however described.

The officers seized the entire $31,131 that the Joneses had voluntarily given them and released them from custody.

....

(Decision) United States demanded to seize the full amount even though, as the defense counsel mentioned, the recommended forfeiture for a conviction of criminal evasion would have been $500 to $5,000. The United States must pay the $35,131 to Kyle Jones and Berekti Jones and their attorney’s fees and costs of court.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive...es-v-35131.php
Outside of the bogus entrapment so they could grab the cash to add to the party fund, we need to again wonder when the USA made it reasonable to have laws the likes of which haven't been seen since the iron curtain fell.

Edit: I just noticed that the judge tacked on an extra $4000 outside of the legal fees.
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Last edited by mikea; April 7th, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #2
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

To me, it seems un-American that the courts have relaxed the due process requirements for asset seizure to the extent that they have. And this business of naming the asset as the defendant, instead of the person or entity that the asset is being seized from, is just looney.

Last edited by Palmpilot; April 7th, 2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #3
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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To me, it seems un-American that the courts have relaxed the due process requirements for asset seizure to the extent that they have. And this business of naming the asset as the defendant, instead of the person or entity that the asset is being seized from, is just looney.
There was the Mexican who lost his $nn,000 life savings he was bringing back to Mexico just because it was $nn,000. Another one who was sent on a mission to buy a truck for his village with cash.

The troopers in Florida are taking any cash they find on random car stops.

And a $12,000 cash tip is, by definition, drug money. http://news.yahoo.com/minn-waitress-...222452161.html

That is, when you add $1.00 to a stack of cash adding up to $9,999.00, it belongs to the government.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 01:31 AM   #4
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

Just say NO to a search.

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There was the Mexican who lost his $nn,000 life savings he was bringing back to Mexico just because it was $nn,000. Another one who was sent on a mission to buy a truck for his village with cash.

The troopers in Florida are taking any cash they find on random car stops.

And a $12,000 cash tip is, by definition, drug money. http://news.yahoo.com/minn-waitress-...222452161.html

That is, when you add $1.00 to a stack of cash adding up to $9,999.00, it belongs to the government.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #5
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

When will the TSA and DHS be dumped?

It seems like they can do anything they want with no real penalty.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #6
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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When will the TSA and DHS be dumped?

It seems like they can do anything they want with no real penalty.
The never will.

1. The government would never give up power like that
2. Government doesn't wanna cut spending that kind of money.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #7
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

Under the current brand of gov't, whether Rep, or Dem, the goal seems to be to force everyone to go to the gov't and get permission to do anything, no matter how trivial and wait for some gov't waste of O2, to give you permission.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Noel View Post
When will the TSA and DHS be dumped?

It seems like they can do anything they want with no real penalty.
That has more to do with a number of Administration's Executive Branches abusing the Executive Order during "wartime". Even though we've had no declaration of War by Congress. Once the public allowed the politicians an undeclared War (three?) the stage was set.

Congress has also been fully compliant with the passing of truly awful legislation too. Both Parties, no matter who's in power.

They won't be dumped. The "terrorism" story is perfect cover for the power-mongers. Anything that happens is a quick way to bypass the checks and balances.

The chances any of this reaches SCOTUS before they pass even more bad law is near-zero. There's little to no accountability, as long as the Consumer can go shopping.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:14 PM
Posted in reply to denverpilot's post starting "That has more to do with a number of..."
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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...The chances any of this reaches SCOTUS before they pass even more bad law is near-zero. There's little to no accountability, as long as the Consumer can go shopping.
I may be wrong but I think asset forfeiture cases have gotten to the steps of the Supremes and have been held up.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #10
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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I may be wrong but I think asset forfeiture cases have gotten to the steps of the Supremes and have been held up.
That's right. They sold out to the anti-drug hysteria.
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Old April 7th, 2012, 09:17 PM
Posted in reply to denverpilot's post starting "That has more to do with a number of..."
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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They won't be dumped. The "terrorism" story is perfect cover for the power-mongers.(
I don't doubt that terrorism may be used as an excuse for perpetuating them, but the excuse given for passing the asset forfeiture laws was the War on Drugs, IIRC.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 01:23 AM   #12
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

Folks:

Guy I know, a 135 operator, was arrested after a large quantity of cocaine was found in possession of his charter customers. Aged over 60 and having lived in the same place for decades, with wife, he was held without bail for six months or so pending trial. "Flight risk."

Charter customers (whose profile had never seemed suspicious to the pilot) plead guilty in plea deals, told prosecutors that they had made great effort to conceal the nature of their trips from pilot.

At trial, took jury around 90 minutes to declare him, "not guilty."

So now, the government is aggressively prosecuting a civil case to take away his 421C.

It is evil, personified. To these bastards, it is a game; the lives and livelihoods of their victims are irrelevant.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #13
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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At trial, took jury around 90 minutes to declare him, "not guilty."

So now, the government is aggressively prosecuting a civil case to take away his 421C.

It is evil, personified. To these bastards, it is a game; the lives and livelihoods of their victims are irrelevant.

How can we stop it? Voting doesn't seem to do anything. Media?
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Old April 8th, 2012, 01:26 AM   #14
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They want to sell the 421 at auction to get cash do they can buy more guns to sell undercover to the drug lords in Mexico.

Anyone else find all of this deplorable? Problem is, even if we manage to find a Congress willing to cut funding for these schennanigans, they still self-fund with captured "drug paraphernalia". Like fast boats, nice cars, and ... aircraft.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 05:41 AM   #15
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

If enough voters cared about this, Congress could end it by outlawing asset seizure in any case where there has been no conviction of the asset's owner.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #16
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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If enough voters cared about this, Congress could end it by outlawing asset seizure in any case where there has been no conviction of the asset's owner.
Precisely. The TSA will go away when the people demand it.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #17
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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Precisely. The TSA will go away when the people demand it.
So never. To do so would admit that transit can not and will never be 100% safe from bad guys.

Collectively we lack the ability to accept that casualties will happen as a trade off for ease of use & overall improved experience.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #18
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

I find the entire US narcotic interdiction effort deplorable, as it is ineffective, expensive, and underlies most of the forfeitures we have seen of the freedoms for which so many have fought and died.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:09 PM   #19
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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I find the entire US narcotic interdiction effort deplorable, as it is ineffective, expensive, and underlies most of the forfeitures we have seen of the freedoms for which so many have fought and died.
I would go a bit further and say the "war" on drugs is perfect cover for nefarious law enforcement types to steal, as well as abuse the system for personal gain, in other ways.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #20
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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I would go a bit further and say the "war" on drugs is perfect cover for nefarious law enforcement types to steal, as well as abuse the system for personal gain, in other ways.
Once again we find ourselves in agreement. Must be something to it.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #21
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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Once again we find ourselves in agreement. Must be something to it.
Ah well, as a smart man said, yesterday, "no one's perfect..."
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #22
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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I would go a bit further and say the "war" on drugs is perfect cover for nefarious law enforcement types to steal, as well as abuse the system for personal gain, in other ways.
I have observed this in action.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 11:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
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How can we stop it? Voting doesn't seem to do anything. Media?
Media is busy selling ads of episodes of "Cops" showing the really sad result of most of this in poor neighborhoods. They have no reason to care. Drug war means higher ratings on the evening "news". And drug war means more episodes of "Breaking Bad", "Weeds", etc. Being a suburbanite drug lord from your basement is now romanticized and monetized in advertising money.

People think its entertainment.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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And drug war means more episodes of "Breaking Bad", "Weeds", etc. Being a suburbanite drug lord from your basement is now romanticized and monetized in advertising money.

People think its entertainment.

Until they get their head blown off when the wander near a meth lab or pot farm in the boonies.

All the millions of $$$ spent on the drug war, and why do we still have these illegal labs, farms and ops in existence?

One of the avionics shops I know the last several years has been converting King Airs with upgraded nav equipment for the DEA to do drug interdiction missions in South America. They are spending millions flying planes in Brazil and Columbia. WTF? We have the DEA, FBI, CIA, BATF, DHS, etc literally tripping over each other here and in foreign countries trying to create more reasons for their budgets to grow!
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #25
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Re: Judge dope slaps the DHS hard for confiscating $35,000 from US family

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Until they get their head blown off when the wander near a meth lab or pot farm in the boonies.
Actually, I believe the nationwide limitation on pseudophedrine sales has been effective at elimination domestic methamphetamine production. Now we just get it from Mexico.
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