I am playing around on ForeFlight and saw some non towered airports near or under B or C with clearance deliveries phone number (19N). 1. If I am VFR departing do I need to contact the number for clearance? 2. Can I call them on the ground for Class B clearance and also request flight following? 3. What about towered airport (KLNS) with a phone number for clearance delivery, for VFR departure do I need to contact the number?
Questions on Clearance delivery with a phone number
- Thread starter Cxt1067
- Start date
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
That's a standard entry for every Airport. If you're flying out of a towered field you won't need to contact them on the phone. It's for when you're flying out of a non-towered field and you need a clearance void.
kujo806
Pre-takeoff checklist
You don’t need any clearance if you are flying vfr out of a non towered airport. You have to get cleared into bravo real time. The phone number is for when you need an ifr clearance and can’t get radio signal to the control facility.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
It has nothing to do with a typical VFR flight.
In the not too distant past, pilots obtained IFR clearances from non-towered airports by calling Flight Service (and yes, there were exceptions, some of which worked better than others). Flight Service would put us on hold, call ATC, get our clearance, and relay it to us. If we had a question about it or needed a change, Flight Service would put us on hold, call ATC… You get the picture.
Then some wise person figured out, why not have the pilot call the ATC facility directly?
That’s those numbers. At towered airports we usually don’t need it, at least when the tower is operating, but even then it can have its uses.
In the not too distant past, pilots obtained IFR clearances from non-towered airports by calling Flight Service (and yes, there were exceptions, some of which worked better than others). Flight Service would put us on hold, call ATC, get our clearance, and relay it to us. If we had a question about it or needed a change, Flight Service would put us on hold, call ATC… You get the picture.
Then some wise person figured out, why not have the pilot call the ATC facility directly?
That’s those numbers. At towered airports we usually don’t need it, at least when the tower is operating, but even then it can have its uses.
Last edited:
Clip4
Final Approach
1. No and clearance delivery will not give you a VFR clearance.
2. No.
3. No.
4. If you are departing from Class D or C airport under a Bravo, you might be able to get a VFR flight following with a Class B clearance via the clearance delivery frequency prior to taxi at some airports.
5. If you are departing from an airport in Class E airspace and need a special VFR clearance, you can call clearance delivery to obtain thr special VFR clearance prior to takeoff.
Last edited:
Clip4
Final Approach
Be serious here. The FAA had to have a team to figure out the pilot could call ATC directly and then it had to go through at least a dozen political appointees.
chemgeek
En-Route
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2009
- Messages
- 2,994
- Display Name
Display name:
chemgeek
As others have pointed out, the phone number is for contacting ATC when departing IFR and needing a void time, and for closing your IFR flight plan on the ground after arrival. This is SOP at my airport, which is in the middle of rural Central New York. The only way to depart IFR when conditions are not VFR is to call and get a void time, and the only way to close your IFR flight plan once below 3000 MSL is to call once on the ground. This is super handy as you talk to someone directly in departure, instead of talking to flight service (in the olde days) who then relayed information back and forth between the pilot and departure.
cowman
Final Approach
So just to understand the system a bit here's the purpose of that.
If you're flying IFR, you need to get a clearance from ATC before you enter the clouds. If you're departing an uncontrolled field you basically have 3 options.
1. If the airport has a relay for ATC you may be able to call by radio on the ground and get your clearance that way.
2. If conditions permit you can depart VFR and then call ATC in the air before entering the clouds to get your clearance.
3. If 1&2 aren't an option, you call the phone number and get your clearance over the phone.
When you get your clearance via option 1 or 3 they'll ask when you'll be ready and give you a void time. Basically they're closing the airport to any arriving IFR traffic until either they're in contact with you or that void time to avoid potential midair collisions between aircraft that can't see each other. As far as I know they do not issue VFR clearances via those options, at least I've never heard anyone do that.
What I would do in your case at an airport under a bravo is depart VFR then call the departure frequency listed for your airport. Ask for flight following and/or any clearance you need right away. Be prepared to give them your destination, planned cruising altitude, and ICAO aircraft type. They might also ask for your on-course heading in that enviornment.
If you're flying IFR, you need to get a clearance from ATC before you enter the clouds. If you're departing an uncontrolled field you basically have 3 options.
1. If the airport has a relay for ATC you may be able to call by radio on the ground and get your clearance that way.
2. If conditions permit you can depart VFR and then call ATC in the air before entering the clouds to get your clearance.
3. If 1&2 aren't an option, you call the phone number and get your clearance over the phone.
When you get your clearance via option 1 or 3 they'll ask when you'll be ready and give you a void time. Basically they're closing the airport to any arriving IFR traffic until either they're in contact with you or that void time to avoid potential midair collisions between aircraft that can't see each other. As far as I know they do not issue VFR clearances via those options, at least I've never heard anyone do that.
What I would do in your case at an airport under a bravo is depart VFR then call the departure frequency listed for your airport. Ask for flight following and/or any clearance you need right away. Be prepared to give them your destination, planned cruising altitude, and ICAO aircraft type. They might also ask for your on-course heading in that enviornment.
Feh
Pre-Flight
Usually, you would contact them on the phone to get your clearance (and it'll highly likely have a clearance void after time), so if you contact them via phone, make sure you're close and ready for departure within 10 minutes or so, otherwise your clearance will be void.
You'll get a clearance end point, departure frequency, squawk code, and void after time, so as said above, you'll take off VFR (clear of clouds) and contact the departure frequency in the air to pick up your IFR flight plan. They might request you maintain VFR clearance.
In some airports you might be able to reach departure control on the ground, but you might not be able since you might not have radio reception or you'll probably be below minimum vectoring altitude (and departure might defer to you being able to ensure clear of obstacles until the MVA altitude).
In Foreflight, you'll use the airport clearance phone number listed in the info tab.
You'll get a clearance end point, departure frequency, squawk code, and void after time, so as said above, you'll take off VFR (clear of clouds) and contact the departure frequency in the air to pick up your IFR flight plan. They might request you maintain VFR clearance.
In some airports you might be able to reach departure control on the ground, but you might not be able since you might not have radio reception or you'll probably be below minimum vectoring altitude (and departure might defer to you being able to ensure clear of obstacles until the MVA altitude).
In Foreflight, you'll use the airport clearance phone number listed in the info tab.
Last edited:
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Being serious, I was doing it well before they were published. Beat the heck out of the 800 number and GCOs that rarely worked.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
One thing to add to that. You may get a ‘released at’ time as well as a void time. It’s called a window.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not enough use that option.
John Collins
En-Route
Not exactly, but it did take quite some time however from when the idea was first submitted to the FAA by the NBAA back in 2011. It helped that the FAA wanted to reduce their contract with Leidos and this was one way it could be accomplished. The main issues that had to be dealt with was buy in from ATC. ATC needed to have all the numbers published and all of them had to be recorded lines. It was a major effort to collect all of the phone numbers and explain the usage for each facility in the AFD portion of the Chart Supplement. Wording had to be different for towers with part time availability, same for part time TRACON operation, some had to call center, while others had to call TRACON. All airports identified in the FAA NASR database, many of which don't have an AFD entry had to have some facility to accept responsibility and notes added into the FAA database. Sometimes it involved negotiations between center and TRACON. Once the roll out began, it took a few years to complete all the work, get the lines identified and in many cases installed, add the recorders, and train the ATC data persons how to handle the calls. Today, all the centers have published data phone numbers. FSS still handles clearance relays if contacted via the radio, but not over the phone.
Pinecone
En-Route
Watched a friend a couple hangars down leaving yesterday. He called from his hangar after loading and taking the plane out of the hangar. Then got in and started.......
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think that many don’t understand that option even exists. The feeling is that once you get your clearance, you’d better hurry up or it will disappear. But the time between clearance and release, nontowered or towered, is really the time to slow down, get the FMS programmed/avionics set up, and be ready to go when you next call.
Sure, it’s possible that a sudden change in weather, an incident, or something else can result in a change between the time you call for your clearance and the time you call for your release, but that can happen even with a shorter time span.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Bluetooth audio panel. Call from cell phone when I'm done with runup and about to pull up to the hold short line.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Me too (not panel but headset). But in my case that’s for the release. I already have my clearance. Everything is already set up and the only thing preventing an immediate takeoff is traffic.
I did not know this was possible. I have been in a situation that might have benefited from that capability. Instead I waited several days for better weather. The aggravating part was there was really good weather just a few miles away. I didn't think specifical VFR was available on the ground from a Class E airport.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Amazing what you discover reading the reg…
91.157 Special VFR weather minimums.
(a) Except as provided in Appendix D, section 3, of this part, special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in §91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport
Initial Fix
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2019
- Messages
- 991
- Display Name
Display name:
Initial Fix
That’s a great idea. In the way back, I did the phone call, got a void time of 20 min. I proceeded to get stuck behind a king air who was doing god knows what for 15 minutes at the end of the taxiway blowing my void time. Taxi back, phone for new void time. And the damn king air is still sitting there.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
That can happen. It can also happen when the weather is VFR at the departure airport but you want to pick your IFR up on the ground. One day last year, I called after my runup and when I was sitting on the ramp near the hold line. I got a 5 minute void time with one airplane ahead of me. What I hadn’t accounted for were the three doing pattern work. I ended up calling back.
Fortunately, I didn’t have to taxi anywhere. I still remember my early IFR. Doing a preflight, running to the FBO, getting a void time, running back to the airplane hoping it will start quickly so I can do my runup and get off the ground in time. In the rain. No way these days I would be without the ability to call without leaving the airplane.
Hang 4
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2017
- Messages
- 2,355
- Display Name
Display name:
Hang 4
Not sure exactly what you did, but I suspect the King Air was being held because you had been issued a release. There's only one plane at a time released. What people are saying is to get your clearance early, but not ask for a release. Taxi out and be # 1 for the runway, and then ask for a release. If the King Air could have called a few minutes after you did and they were being held waiting for you to tag up with approach after take off. They have no visibility to who's waiting in line at a non-towered airport.
Last edited:
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Definitely a possibility. And another reason to communicate. Both aircraft should have been at least monitoring CTAF at that point. A simple, “what are you guys waiting for?” might have resolved things very quickly.
Example. I was inbound. Once VFR, I cancelled IFR. At just about the same time, an aircraft holding short told me they were awaiting their release. I replied, “I just cancelled. Go ahead and call.” Big thank you.
Tokirbymd
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2019
- Messages
- 253
- Display Name
Display name:
Tokirbymd
I tried that once at our not so busy airport just outside of a not so busy Charlie. Their response was something along the lines of there is nobody around, why are you wasting our time with 2 phone calls. Just call us for the clearance when you're at the hold short line #1 for departure.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,321
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
The majority of airports you won’t need to call at the hold short line. If they’re that busy, they need to put a tower in there.
I issued a maybe a couple dozen clearances over the phone. I used to ask when they’d be ready for departure and issue a void based on that. You’ve got at least 30 minute heads up for other IFR arrivals / departures. If no one else is on the board, give the pilot the void that coincides with their predicted departure time. If there’s other arrivals departures around that time, I usually went with 10 minutes or “hold for release.”
Unless there’s absolutely nothing else going on, there’s no one size fits all approach. Generally asked what runway they planned on using as well, unless I had nothing going on. In that case, I didn’t care where they popped up on radar. As long as it was in my airspace, didn’t matter.
I issued a maybe a couple dozen clearances over the phone. I used to ask when they’d be ready for departure and issue a void based on that. You’ve got at least 30 minute heads up for other IFR arrivals / departures. If no one else is on the board, give the pilot the void that coincides with their predicted departure time. If there’s other arrivals departures around that time, I usually went with 10 minutes or “hold for release.”
Unless there’s absolutely nothing else going on, there’s no one size fits all approach. Generally asked what runway they planned on using as well, unless I had nothing going on. In that case, I didn’t care where they popped up on radar. As long as it was in my airspace, didn’t matter.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not-so-busy Charlies might be the worst. Some are (in)famous for it.
It's generally not the best idea to decide what to do generally by looking at one controller or facility with a bad attitude. I can't even count the number of times I've called for a clearance and they were the ones to, "hold for release; call us back when you are number 1 at the hold line" after giving me the full clearance.
Last edited:
Initial Fix
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2019
- Messages
- 991
- Display Name
Display name:
Initial Fix
He ended up making a call about a mechanical issue
Pinecone
En-Route
Because you have to enter the clearance into the nav and some other housekeeping. And that can hold up others behind you that are VFR.