I just got screwed..

E

Ethanash16

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Feb 8, 2024
Messages
20
Display Name
Display name:
Ethan Ash
I have 400TT and i got hired to fly skydivers in a c206 staionaire in luverne, MN. The insurance approved me, they hired me and told me to come up and said id get 80 hours a month logged. So i move from dallas to luverne, grab a ****ty place to stay, and i had to wait 3 weeks before they finished training the other pilot. So i basically sat on the bench for three weeks watching them fly literally. Then finally i go today thinking im flying, and they said ohh we actually dont really need a 3rd pilot right now, sorry. I said well you couldve told me that 3 weeks ago before i moved here… So i just got completely screwed and moved across the country for no reason, wasted X amount of $s to get here, and will have to start the search for a job flying all over again. Damn
 
Ethanash16 said:
I have 400TT and i got hired to fly skydivers in a c206 staionaire in luverne, MN. The insurance approved me, they hired me and told me to come up and said id get 80 hours a month logged. So i move from dallas to luverne, grab a ****ty place to stay, and i had to wait 3 weeks before they finished training the other pilot. So i basically sat on the bench for three weeks watching them fly literally. Then finally i go today thinking im flying, and they said ohh we actually dont really need a 3rd pilot right now, sorry. I said well you couldve told me that 3 weeks ago before i moved here… So i just got completely screwed and moved across the country for no reason, wasted X amount of $s to get here, and will have to start the search for a job flying all over again. Damn
Click to expand...
Do you have the job offer in writing? If so, it might be worth filing a suit in small claims court just to make the point. You may not get anything, but forcing them to defend might prevent it from happening to someone else in the future.
 
Yikes! That's a rough story.

I'm skeptical of any skydiving operation, and turned one down that was just a few miles away from my home when I found that their insurance was virtually non-existant. I guess if you're looking for a time builder it can be worthwhile, but the risks are relatively high with respect to reliable operations.
 
With a large group of pilots looking to build time and get payed for it,they can get away with false promises. Good luck on your quest .
 
Even the major airlines are changing their terms after offers of employment has been made. Friend of mine was made to pay for his type training that was previously paid by the airline. These employers know there are more pilots than positions so they take advantage of the pilots flexibility. It’s definitely not a good business practice and it suck’s for the pilots trying to build time.
 
frfly172 said:
With a large group of pilots looking to build time and get payed for it,they can get away with false promises. Good luck on your quest .
Click to expand...
Yeah i learned that the hard way. Now im stuck in sioux falls and have to get some other job to make some money to go to the next place. IF i can find someone who will let me start my career with them. Im basically living on the road lol
 
Welcome to the world of aviation.

I walked in to start a new flying job in Fairbanks, only to find out the owner of the business was killed that morning in a plane crash.

I spent the winter working on rental cars, and Fairbanks has long winters.

At least ask to be reimbursed for money spent, maybe in a demand letter.
 
Zeldman said:
Welcome to the world of aviation.

I walked in to start a new flying job in Fairbanks, only to find out the owner of the business was killed that morning in a plane crash.

I spent the winter working on rental cars, and Fairbanks has long winters.

At least ask to be reimbursed for money spent, maybe in a demand letter.
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s just so frustrating. I just want to start my career i spent so much money working on and i feel like i can’t even get my feet off the ground no matter what i do. I don’t have any money left and have sent out probably over a thousand applications in almost every state in the country. I want to just put 500TT on my resume and see if that works lol
 
That is a ****ty deal. I think it’s well within the ToC to out them by name to at least help the next person from getting screwed.
 
400 hours tt isn’t going to qualify you for much. I honestly find it remarkable you got an offer to fly skydivers with so few hours. 500 hours isn’t going to change much either. Maybe 750-1200 will start getting you interviews unless you get your CFI.
 
Initial Fix said:
That is a ****ty deal. I think it’s well within the ToC to out them by name to at least help the next person from getting screwed.
Click to expand...
Skydive adventures in luverne, MN.. definitely do not go there. Also the chief pilot there is jim and he’s an ass, picked up on that immediately lol
 
Grum.Man said:
400 hours tt isn’t going to qualify you for much. I honestly find it remarkable you got an offer to fly skydivers with so few hours. 500 hours isn’t going to change much either. Maybe 750-1200 will start getting you interviews unless you get your CFI.
Click to expand...
Well the pipeline patrol operations, aerial survey/photography, banner towing and tours hire around those hours. Otherwise like how do you even get to 750 hours
 
Ethanash16 said:
Well the pipeline patrol operations, aerial survey/photography, banner towing and tours hire around those hours. Otherwise like how do you even get to 750 hours
Click to expand...
Instruct. Most of the instructors at the school I’m using have well less than 1,000.
 
Ethanash16 said:
Well the pipeline patrol operations, aerial survey/photography, banner towing and tours hire around those hours. Otherwise like how do you even get to 750 hours
Click to expand...
They might advertise that but actually getting hired at those hours is going to take a bit of networking. To get 750 either keep flying on your dime or get your CFI and instruct.
 
I'm really curious why you chased the skydiving job? A local 500 hour pilot was offered a Glider -Tow, Right Seat in charter twin and CFI job here in his home town but, decided to chase the skydiving job.... Why? what is the attraction?
 
Klaus M said:
I'm really curious why you chased the skydiving job? A local 500 hour pilot was offered a Glider -Tow, Right Seat in charter twin and CFI job here in his home town but, decided to chase the skydiving job.... Why? what is the attraction?
Click to expand...
I wasnt offered those jobs, and the attraction was they hired me
 
Last edited:
Ethanash16 said:
I have 400TT and i got hired to fly skydivers in a c206 staionaire in luverne, MN. The insurance approved me, they hired me and told me to come up and said id get 80 hours a month logged. So i move from dallas to luverne, grab a ****ty place to stay, and i had to wait 3 weeks before they finished training the other pilot. So i basically sat on the bench for three weeks watching them fly literally. Then finally i go today thinking im flying, and they said ohh we actually dont really need a 3rd pilot right now, sorry. I said well you couldve told me that 3 weeks ago before i moved here… So i just got completely screwed and moved across the country for no reason, wasted X amount of $s to get here, and will have to start the search for a job flying all over again. Damn
Click to expand...
You state they didn’t need 3 pilots. I am really bad at math and have a really poor knowledge of Minnesota weather, so can you explain how you were going to get 80 flight hours a month from a skydiving place that claims “Weather permitting, we are typically jumping on Weekends beginning around 9 am. However jumping occasionally occurs on other days and times” even if you were the only pilot?
 
Last edited:
Clip4 said:
You state they didn’t need 3 pilots. I am really bad at math and have a really poor knowledge of Minnesota weather, so can you explain how you were going to get 80 flight hours a month from a skydiving place that claims “Weather permitting, we are typically jumping on Weekends beginning around 9 am. However jumping occasionally occurs on other days and times” even if you were the only pilot?
Click to expand...
I think they oversold how busy they were
 
Racerx said:
I think they oversold how busy they were
Click to expand...
The operational hours are posted for god and everyone on their website and anyone that knows anything about sky diving knows it is a weekend recreational activity requiring VMC and favorable wind conditions.
 
Last edited:
Racerx said:
I think they oversold how busy they were
Click to expand...
Youre damn right they did. I made sure to be crystal clear with them before i moved there too. I said how many hours per week, they said 20-25, and i said 20-25 hours flight time logged or on the schedule. And they said time logged. Bs.. i waited for three weeks to even sit in the aircraft.
 
Ethan, just a little advise... Go to any airport coffee shop restaurant and sit with the old pilots that meet each morning. Your story for a 400 hour pilot is not unusual and you'll get advise face to face with those who have been there and done that. There's many of the commercial pilots on this forum that lived in their car for several months as they worked as ramp rat and/or shop helper. It takes 500 hours before you're eligible for most paying flying jobs.

I don't know where you are now and where you want to end up someday but, aviation is a 'transportation' industry. There's jobs everywhere and just like truck driving, train engineer or ship captain... you always are traveling and it will take many years before you can afford a home base. Get a membership at the local exercise club for showers and eat cheap. Career pilots can smell FREE food from ten miles away.

I sure hope you learned something from this skydiving experience and other pilots wanting a career flying read your story. If someone on this forum walked into their "ideal" aviation job and have a story share with everyone. There's 'rich kids' stories about starting at the top but they probably don't read this forum.
 
Ethanash16 said:
Youre damn right they did. I made sure to be crystal clear with them before i moved there too. I said how many hours per week, they said 20-25, and i said 20-25 hours flight time logged or on the schedule. And they said time logged. Bs.. i waited for three weeks to even sit in the aircraft.
Click to expand...
Your failure was not investigating the employer before you accepted the position. That is your responsibility. I did a 1 minute investigation and could determine that claim was bogus. Live and learn weed hopper.

It is possible the person you were speaking to had no knowledge of the operational hours and said what you wanted to hear to make sure they had a pilot for the summer.

Sorry you got hosed, but you allowed it to happen.
 
bbchien said:
Sorry to hear Ethan. CFI-CFI-CFI

:(
Click to expand...
One thing that is sometimes overlooked with the CFI pathway is how much you actually LEARN by teaching, as long as you're diligent in your effort to improve your knowledge and experience. I think that applies to a number of other professions as well.
 
dbahn said:
…how much you actually LEARN by teaching, as long as you're diligent in your effort to improve your knowledge and experience. I think that applies to a number of other professions as well.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

Just found out there's a name for it: Protege effect
 
Last edited:
Agreed in theory. Unfortunately, the track record in civil primary instruction is not great. The product lacks quality control like you read about, and there is a higher level of apathy toward the job than I'd expect from a cohort of people who banally declare they're in aviation because they're gonna "LiV' dUh drEem" come hell or high water. There are quite a few opportunity costs to stove-piping a bunch of transactional types into a single channel just to overcome the second largest barrier to entry (flight time). Working income is one of those opp costs, quality is obviously another. Some even kill students over that insolent job duty apathy.

I do disclose my bias as a career .mil instructor. My inability to pursue a gainful instruction career in the civil sector continues to be largely driven by that dynamic of undervaluation, which the military artificially insulates me from with high barriers to entry. None of the work I otherwise enjoy (read: single pilot ops) pay a particularly attractive wage/schedules/location for family formation or retirement considerations, vis a vis my professional peer incomes/domiciles. Life ain't fair/timing and luck/username checks/pick your platitude type of thing.

BL, the OP scenario is admittedly pretty low-level rake-stepping on the adulting scale. He could use better life mentors. I appreciate the fact my parents, completely shut out of any aviation legacy leg-up circles as they were, did provide me safe harbor and dry maps with which to chart my course in hard IMC (early 20s). I owe them for life. Sincere good luck to the OP moving forward, whether he decides to pursue CFI or a different avenue.
 
Seems “dropping meat bombs” would be a long slog to +500hr. The outfit at my home base seems sketchy as heck. Struck up a conversation with one of their pilots since we both fly Skylanes. He was admiring mine like it was the a new fighter jet, (not so much). Then, strolled over to the what I’d generously say was once probably a serviceable plane. Nope, nada, hard pass! Leaks, screws mia on inspection panels, nose strut way down, tires ready for the drag strip…. Didn’t have the heart to look inside.

I’m sure these guys are the fringe of this business model, but I just don’t see them flying all that much really. Take off, climb like homesick angels, drop, dive back down and hope there’s another group of brave souls ready to go again. (Usually not). Gotta be hell on the engine as well. On a good day maybe four drops. Weekends, weather permitting, about it.

I wish you well Ethan. You got a crappy deal. I’d recommend the CFI, pipeline, aerial photo/survey, banner or glider tow route. What little I’ve seen would make me fly clear of dropping meat bombs. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Blue skys,
Joe
 
Klaus M said:
I'm really curious why you chased the skydiving job? A local 500 hour pilot was offered a Glider -Tow, Right Seat in charter twin and CFI job here in his home town but, decided to chase the skydiving job.... Why? what is the attraction?
Click to expand...

Hippie chicks, maybe.
 
Joepilotmsp said:
Then, strolled over to the what I’d generously say was once probably a serviceable plane. Nope, nada, hard pass! Leaks, screws mia on inspection panels, nose strut way down, tires ready for the drag strip…. Didn’t have the heart to look inside.
Click to expand...
Words from a jump pilot who flew an equally rough-looking 182 at a tandem-only DZ: “We keep it looking like that to give the jumpers motivation to get out.”
 
Ethanash16 said:
I have 400TT and i got hired to fly skydivers in a c206 staionaire in luverne, MN. The insurance approved me, they hired me and told me to come up and said id get 80 hours a month logged. So i move from dallas to luverne, grab a ****ty place to stay, and i had to wait 3 weeks before they finished training the other pilot. So i basically sat on the bench for three weeks watching them fly literally. Then finally i go today thinking im flying, and they said ohh we actually dont really need a 3rd pilot right now, sorry. I said well you couldve told me that 3 weeks ago before i moved here… So i just got completely screwed and moved across the country for no reason, wasted X amount of $s to get here, and will have to start the search for a job flying all over again. Damn
Click to expand...
I am not licensed to practice law in Minnesota, but in my state, that conduct is actionable.
 
Well, there are always two sides to a story, and we're only hearing yours... but a few questions.

Question one - was there a written offer of employment?

Question two - in that offer was there a mention of a relocation package?

Question three - we're you paid for the three weeks while you were waiting for training?

I am not a lawyer, but I have made a few offers to potential employees in the past - and if there was a written offer what you're saying stinks to the high heavens.

Like PPC 1052 notes, they are going to need to make you whole; however, if there is no written offer of employment detailing things like salary, relocation, training and on-boarding, benefit eligibility, etc... well.... good luck
 
Joepilotmsp said:
I’m sure these guys are the fringe of this business model, but I just don’t see them flying all that much really. Take off, climb like homesick angels, drop, dive back down and hope there’s another group of brave souls ready to go again. (Usually not). Gotta be hell on the engine as well. On a good day maybe four drops. Weekends, weather permitting, about it.


Blue skys,
Joe
Click to expand...

Where I learned to skydive, two 182s stayed busy all day; often hot loading the next load. From 10:00 am to 7:00 pm; an easy 8-10 loads per plane per weekend day.
 
Back
Top