Accidentally answered no to 18w on FAA medical… what now?

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Airlinepilot624

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Airlinepilot624
Help me Dr. Fowler's.

I'm an ATP 121 airline pilot, I'm 23 almost 5 years ago(4/2019) I was arrested while sleeping in my car for a Minor in possession (alcohol). Last year (4/2023) I renewed my 1st class medical and did NOT answer yes to 18w because I thought it was only relating to DWI, OWI, etc. this month I am renewing my 1st class medical and by reading more closely it appears I should have answered yes.

the MIP was not a misdemeanor nor felony and was a "city ordnance violation " in a college town. I was in the driver seat and blew a .91 . I was charged with MIP not a DUI and there was no license action

If I answer yes to 18w will my medical automatically be deferred? I disclosed this to my company when they hired me but if my medical gets deferred I would think I would be fired as it's not protected under the union.

How do I move forward
 
The applications is asking about misdemeanor or felony convictions. If it's not a misdemeanor or felony it's not reportable so "no" is the correct answer; you have nothing to worry about.
 
Dana said:
The applications is asking about misdemeanor or felony convictions. If it's not a misdemeanor or felony it's not reportable so "no" is the correct answer; you have nothing to worry about.
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City ordinances like MIP are misdemeanors…and OP you didn’t blow .91 because you’re still alive.
 
Country Flier said:
City ordinances like MIP are misdemeanors…and OP you didn’t blow .91 because you’re still alive.
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I don't know that that's correct. Years ago I got ticketed for spearfishing in an area marked "no swimming". Paid the fine, and the judge made a point to tell me that it was a non criminal "violation" of the town code, not a misdemeanor or felony, and that I had not been "convicted of a crime".

I suspect he slipped a decimal point and it was 0.091. Cop should have congratulated him for being smart enough to not drive home in that condition instead of arresting him.
 
I don't think it's likely you'll get fired for a medical deferment. You will get put in the theistic feigned contrition program UFN, and pay to stay in the good graces of the petty functionaries at the center for sclerosis studies. You know the pita that's coming. I've seen people quit flying professionally for less. Only you can determine if that ish is worth it.

Now, losing your ATP because the Pharisees at the Ministry of Temperance take exception to your interpretation of what an alcohol related misdemeanor conviction qualifies under? Yeah that one will, statutorily, get your fired from livin' duh dream airlines. Lack of ATP trumps scarlet lettered medical every day of the week.
 
Dana said:
The applications is asking about misdemeanor or felony convictions. If it's not a misdemeanor or felony it's not reportable so "no" is the correct answer; you have nothing to worry about.
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What about 18v then? Because I was "arrested" for an alcohol related event
 
Country Flier said:
City ordinances like MIP are misdemeanors…and OP you didn’t blow .91 because you’re still alive.
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Hi country flier, in this case the MIP was only a city ordnance violation. I have checked with the court house to confirm that it is not a misdemeanor but more like a ticket for a noice complaint. This was the information I was relying on 5 years ago and hence didn't report it. However now this is my 3 rd time applying for a medical I'm concerned about 18 v relating to the fact I was arrested for an alcohol event but it was NOT a DUI/DWI, etc nor did it lead to motor vehicle action
 
AKiss20 said:
This got me curious because I also reacted the same way when I read 0.91. Amazingly there have been credible examples of BACs > 1 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content).

If OP blew a 0.91 as a minor he must have been hitting the sauce at age 4 to build that level of tolerance, or more likely, typo haha.
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This was indeed a typo I blew a
Dana said:
The applications is asking about misdemeanor or felony convictions. If it's not a misdemeanor or felony it's not reportable so "no" is the correct answer; you have nothing to worry about.Thanks
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Dana said:
The applications is asking about misdemeanor or felony convictions. If it's not a misdemeanor or felony it's not reportable so "no" is the correct answer; you have nothing to worry about.
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Thanks dana, however I believe this is reportable under 18v as this was a "alcohol" related arrest. From my understanding it is most definitely reportable. The question now is what is going to happen once I report it? It's the only alcohol event I've had and it was 5 years ago. Moreover I can't afford to lose this job also if I get fired the company will sue me for breach of a training contract :( I fear I'm in deep trouble and this keeps me up at night.
 
Airlinepilot624 said:
Help me Dr. Fowler's.

I'm an ATP 121 airline pilot, I'm 23 almost 5 years ago(4/2019) I was arrested while sleeping in my car for a Minor in possession (alcohol). Last year (4/2023) I renewed my 1st class medical and did NOT answer yes to 18w because I thought it was only relating to DWI, OWI, etc. this month I am renewing my 1st class medical and by reading more closely it appears I should have answered yes.

the MIP was not a misdemeanor nor felony and was a "city ordnance violation " in a college town. I was in the driver seat and blew a .91 . I was charged with MIP not a DUI and there was no license action

If I answer yes to 18w will my medical automatically be deferred? I disclosed this to my company when they hired me but if my medical gets deferred I would think I would be fired as it's not protected under the union.

How do I move forward
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You should find a good HIMS AME or other experienced AME to discuss your specific case.

Assuming you meant 0.091 BAC and a few other conditions, there is a chance you could still be issued a certificate on day of exam if you disclose. It's also possible you'd have a short deferral, but if the it truly was just an innocent oversight, there's a high chance you get certified with an eligibility letter.

Best not to have that skeleton hanging around in the closet...
 
An arrest typically indicates that it was a criminal case, not a civil one... unless the charge was changed from criminal to civil. You may want to do more research.
 
guess it paid off to wait right over the 5 year point to have this "epiphany" of conscience. Well played. See you're acting like a pro pilot already. I predict I'll suffer a similar bout of clarity of mind on my last military medical. My last name is not Nostradamus but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few months ago... :fingerwag:
 
bbchien said:
Jaysus, you guys.
Single 0.091 An AME can issue if everything's right.
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Sure, but is it reportable as a city ordinance violation (aka, a ticket)? He was obviously detained during the ticket, but there doesn't appear to have been an arrest.
 
bflynn said:
Sure, but is it reportable as a city ordinance violation (aka, a ticket)? He was obviously detained during the ticket, but there doesn't appear to have been an arrest.
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That’s a great question no one here can answer based on the information given.

“Well, violating a municipal ordinance where I live is not a crime” doesn’t mean it isn’t one somewhere else.
 
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GoFlightMed said:
Shack (though seems he's more in category B than C...)
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I think the 5 year breakpoint is the decided. Probably did my math wrong or assumed it was inside vs outside of that.
 
Define your arrest.
They may have taken you to the station and held you in a 'storage hangar' but were you actually arrested? Did you have to appear before a judge and be arraigned, then go through the whole lawyer, judge, sentencing thing?

OR Did they give you a limo ride to the station, blow hard until I tell you to stop, and then issue a MIP citation...

Always take the keys out of the ignition and put them under a rock somewhere (not in the car) somewhere that YOU can find them later.
 
James M. Blum said:
I’m a HIMS AME. If what you have stated is accurate, you can be issued in the office. I would make sure you show up with everything necessary to complete this form
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can u tell me what percentage of people on celexa have some level of cognitive impairment?
 
Airlinepilot624 said:
What about 18v then? Because I was "arrested" for an alcohol related event
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Here are the instructions for 18v:

"Letter (v) of this subheading asks if you have ever been: (1) arrested and/or convicted (which may include paying a fine, or forfeiting bond or collateral) of an offense involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) arrested, convicted and/or subject to an administrative action by a state or other jurisdiction for an offense for which your license was denied, suspended, cancelled, or revoked or which resulted in attendance at an educational or rehabilitation program. Individual traffic arrests and/or convictions are not required to be reported if they did not involve: alcohol or a drug; suspension, revocation, cancellation, or denial of driving privileges; or attendance at an educational or rehabilitation program."

Does either of these apply?
 
When you were tested with a breathalyzer test was that a portable breathalyzer (preliminary breath test) police carry around with them? Those are not admissible in court if that is the case the test is not accurate.
 
kell490 said:
When you were tested with a breathalyzer test was that a portable breathalyzer (preliminary breath test) police carry around with them? Those are not admissible in court if that is the case the test is not accurate.
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Which has nothing to do with whether a medical “yes” is required.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Which has nothing to do with whether a medical “yes” is required.
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It could matter if how they are to proceed now. Telling the FAA it was a .091 based on a PBT is incorrect information. It should be reported as a minor in possession of alcohol.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Isn't the inquiry into the "yes" likely to go beyond that?
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I'm sure but I believe it should be noted if the test was using a PBT or a calibrated legal breathalyzer test the OP would want to give accurate information.
 
kell490 said:
I'm sure but I believe it should be noted if the test was using a PBT or a calibrated legal breathalyzer test the OP would want to give accurate information.
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Absolutely. But all that is after that "yes" answer to question 18 (which I think constitutes 100% of what I said)..
 
Thank you all for reaching out,

So AOPA put me in touch with a law firm out of Florida and I got a 30 minute consultation with them through my AOPA membership.

I met with the lawyer via phone and he was great. I already had all the court documents, arrest, and judgements available for him so he was able to give me an official answer during our consultation.

So the answer is no to both 18v&w.

For 18w I had to get a letter from the court stating that the "city ordinance violation" was not a misdemeanor or a felony and he gave me a written letter stating that it is not reportable.

For 18v, I did not have a license suspended, there was no education program, etc. so NO it is not reportable.

It varies state by state but a city ordinance violation is just like a ticket and the department where I went to college arrest for every ordinance violation including noice complaints and littering. But even though it was an arrest it's not a misdemeanor.

This was a huge weight off my shoulders and I'm glad I'm still employed with my 121 carrier. I answered no because that how I interpreted it over the last medical but upon some reading and talking to a local lawyer it appeared any alcohol event needs to be reported, which is not the case.
 
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It's generally not a good idea to post the legal advice you get from your lawyer on the Internet.
 
Lindberg said:
It's generally not a good idea to post the legal advice you get from your lawyer on the Internet.
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I am curious as to your thoughts on why? I agree as a general proposition, but in this case, I find it informative and worth noting that an attorney has confirmed something that others may have thought. I am sure others on this page will discount the legal advice the OP received.
 
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